Load development VLD's

cjuve

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SPRING CREEK, NEVADA
I agree with Mikecr on this, after doing some extensive load development with a .338 edge +p I have come to the conclusion that seating depth needs to be roughed in first then powder then fine seating adjustments. In doing my load development I have noticed some fairly consistant group patterns emerge just by adjusting seating,one of those being a vertical string and one a horizontal string, the best grouping occurs between those two. I have found multiple seating nodes that maintain .5-.65 MOA accuracy out to 1200 yds,accuracy nodes in the seating seem to repeat themselves. Bergers seating depth test worked well for me identifying a good starting point for load development which I would suggest people try first.
 

barefooter56

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Nov 10, 2014
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So I am awaiting my new barrel and trying to figure out how to load develop Berger VLD's. My old barrel did not allow me to reach the lands so I just shot groups at max coal with different powders.

This is a 7mm WSM with a short throat so my VLD's will touch the lands at magazine length. I am shooting 168 Berger VLD's with Norma MRP.

I currently only have 8 cases (20 more waiting to fireform). I loaded 8 the following for a short break in/test pressure.

2 of each:
62, 62.5, 63, 63.5 (I be chronographing all of these and check for pressure)

Hopefully this will get me on paper and zero-ed at 100 yd. Then I will CoW Fireform the 20 case (270wsm) I have and give the barrel a good cleaning.

My question is when I start developing a load should I pick a charge say 63.7gr (-.5gr published max) and start with distance from COAL?

or should I pick a standard COAL and vary charges?

(Barrel is a 3 groove Pacnor 28" and it will be lots of steel/paper shooting but purpose is hunting big game)
elktaker,
Our load data for the 168 VLD HUNTING bullets and your 7 WSM shows a 60.0 grain starting load and a maximum load of 63.2 grains. Approximate fill ratio is 93%. Do your bullet seating depth testing at the 60.0 grain load and when that is found work your load back up in 1/2 grain increments until you get to 2 GRAINS BELOW MAXIMUM then drop to 1/10th grain increments. If you find that you are seating the bullet deeper in the case than magazine length for accuracy you MAY hit pressure sooner ! Same with seating bullet into the lands( something we do NOT recommend for a hunting rifle). You have a 3.2 grain window here so we suggest smaller moves than what you have listed. If you cant find a good node with what you have to work with now then try the 168 grain CLASSIC HUNTER bullets if moving the throat out will put the VLD bullet over magazine length and you don't want to use it in the single shot mode. If you have any more questions please contact us here or at [email protected]
 

elktaker

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Dec 25, 2014
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elktaker,
Our load data for the 168 VLD HUNTING bullets and your 7 WSM shows a 60.0 grain starting load and a maximum load of 63.2 grains. Approximate fill ratio is 93%. Do your bullet seating depth testing at the 60.0 grain load and when that is found work your load back up in 1/2 grain increments until you get to 2 GRAINS BELOW MAXIMUM then drop to 1/10th grain increments. If you find that you are seating the bullet deeper in the case than magazine length for accuracy you MAY hit pressure sooner ! Same with seating bullet into the lands( something we do NOT recommend for a hunting rifle). You have a 3.2 grain window here so we suggest smaller moves than what you have listed. If you cant find a good node with what you have to work with now then try the 168 grain CLASSIC HUNTER bullets if moving the throat out will put the VLD bullet over magazine length and you don't want to use it in the single shot mode. If you have any more questions please contact us here or at [email protected]

My barrel should be short throated to touch lands for a overal COAL of 2.91 (that feeds reliably out of my mag). I plan to only seat the bullet a max of .050 off the lands before and the closest to the lands will be .010 (since purpose is hunting).

Am I expected to see that much of a difference in pressure from .010 off lands to .050 to merit 2 grains below published max. (if I am seeing no pressure signs).

I will start at 60 for seating depth which will save some life on the hard to get brass.
 

barefooter56

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Nov 10, 2014
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913
My barrel should be short throated to touch lands for a overal COAL of 2.91 (that feeds reliably out of my mag). I plan to only seat the bullet a max of .050 off the lands before and the closest to the lands will be .010 (since purpose is hunting).

Am I expected to see that much of a difference in pressure from .010 off lands to .050 to merit 2 grains below published max. (if I am seeing no pressure signs).

I will start at 60 for seating depth which will save some life on the hard to get brass.
elktaker,
Understand on the throat. Glad you are starting at the 60 grain load and working up from there. Only testing will tell you where the pressure signs begin. Please let us know how you come out on this. Thanks for using our bullets!
 

coyotezapper

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Sep 26, 2009
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Central Utah
Two points real quick to make here.

1. The above link is meant to find a powder charge that is very consistent over a broad seating depth lengths. If done right you will not have to chase the lands as the throat erodes or not as much. I have found in multiple cartridges / calibers, loads that shoot well with the same powder charge but different OAL's. JUST TRY IT as it is written and see for yourself.

2. Velocity=pressure. Load to listed velocities with everything else being the same and you will be at stated pressures. Don't rely on what your brass is telling you. I have loaded 7 Mag's to 67,000 psi ( Oehler 43 PBL ) with no signs of pressure on brass. Quickload will help with pressure limits. There is no free lunch when it comes to velocity.
 

elktaker

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Dec 25, 2014
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2. Velocity=pressure. Load to listed velocities with everything else being the same and you will be at stated pressures. Don't rely on what your brass is telling you. I have loaded 7 Mag's to 67,000 psi ( Oehler 43 PBL ) with no signs of pressure on brass. Quickload will help with pressure limits. There is no free lunch when it comes to velocity.

Any one able to run it through Quickload for me?

It is a 28" Pacnor 3 groove.
Norma MRP powder with CCI Mag primers.

Using Bergers reloading manual, their max velocity is 2940+4"(30) = 3060 fps (i am sure this is a little conservative).
 

coyotezapper

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Any one able to run it through Quickload for me?

It is a 28" Pacnor 3 groove.
Norma MRP powder with CCI Mag primers.

Using Bergers reloading manual, their max velocity is 2940+4"(30) = 3060 fps (i am sure this is a little conservative).

I need your OAL to get QL data
 

coyotezapper

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OAL 2.9" for .010" off lands.

Berger 168 vld's as mentioned

Max will be 66.9 grs - 3138 FPS - 63,556 PSI - PMAX is 63,817 FPS

I would start at 62 grs and go up in .5 gr increments until you reach 3100ish fps. If you change primers at any time drop charges and retest as these can cause pressures to spike. For example WLRM primers are HOT. You should be ok with cci.
 

elktaker

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Dec 25, 2014
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Max will be 66.9 grs - 3138 FPS - 63,556 PSI - PMAX is 63,817 FPS

I would start at 62 grs and go up in .5 gr increments until you reach 3100ish fps. If you change primers at any time drop charges and retest as these can cause pressures to spike. For example WLRM primers are HOT. You should be ok with cci.

Thanks, I will stop at 3100 fps when finding my max that is plenty fast enough if I can get a good node between 3000 and 3100 fps I will be very happy, but we will see what barrel likes.

I have not heard anything from pacnor about my barrel that was suppose to be done. Got everything ready I can, but cannot go any farther until I fireform some brass for it.

I will post my results when I get out to the range.
 

bob4

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Nov 10, 2012
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Naples Fl.
trying to wrap my head around this:

I almost feel like my answer is a given but I better ask anyway. Basically asking if .040 is a bit of a spread.

Erik/Len Backus said:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL
+/- .002 or .005.

Let's say mine gets vertical and velocities level off some at .090. Should that be it +/- .5 or would you look a at .070 and .110, +/-.020 both directions from .090, to see if that improves before moving onto powder?
 

elktaker

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bob4, you're hijacking the thread. Should start a new one.

Doesn't bother me and it is closely related. As long as I do not have to read through two people arguing to find the answer to a question, I am good.

Plus apparently "it may done last Friday" means - they are getting to it a week later so I am still awaiting my Pacnor barrel and debating about ordering a Nightforce SHV 4-14x MOA 1000 (MOA special edition) to replace my VXI with M1 turrets.

I almost put my 6x45 barrel back on so I can get out and shot some paper.
gun)
 

elktaker

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Dec 25, 2014
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bob4, you're hijacking the thread. Should start a new one.

Doesn't me and it is closely related. As long as I do not have to read through two people arguing to find the answer to a question, I am good.

Plus apparently "it may done last Friday" means - they are getting to it a week later so I am still awaiting my Pacnor barrel and debating about ordering a Nightforce SHV 4-14x MOA 1000 (MOA special edition) to replace my VXI with M1 turrets.

I almost put my 6x45 barrel back on so I can get out and shot some paper.
gun)
 
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