Let them walk.

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Quintus

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I have thought about this quite bit. I am not a trophy hunter, I just love to hunt. Ducks are what I live for, but ice comes early and hooves and horns extend my opportunity to scratch my primal itch to hunt. I would rather shoot a 150-200 pound bear because they eat MUCH better. I have passed on 170" deer on day 2 to shoot a 140" on day 7 so I could keep hunting. I have also eaten tag soup on several out state hunts because I passed on early opportunities. My choice. I know a lot of folks mostly old timers that will not shoot a big buck. They prefer to eat fawns to 2 1/2 year olds, buck or doe. Their choice. Everyone that hunts does so for their own reasons. For many it is just the vanity of big horns, for many it's meat, or tradition, or a multitude of multiple reasons. We are one of the few places (USA) where the average work-a-day joe can reasonably afford to buy a tag and hunt. They are not the kings deer, or the sheriffs game we hunt, but the animals our taxes and license fees have managed and made available. Winter, drought, disease, and old age kill more animals with big horns or the potential for big horns than we do. If you want big horns, hunt harder and smarter. Besides, it wouldn't be much of a trophy if there were 17" pronhorns and 200" bucks around every corner. Just one free Americans opinion.
 

codyadams

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Southwest Wyoming
I remember a very similar post last year, also about pronghorn.

Growing up here in Wyoming, I have seen a ridiculous amount of pronghorn taken, and I do have to say, they are probably the most poorly judged big game animals we have to offer. Pronghorn can get hard to judge, and when you see so many of them that is essentially becomes "shopping" for your animal, a 72" buck with decent diggers may seem like a standout from all the small bucks you have been seeing, that it seems mature. However often times with mule deer and elk, you don't even see any legal animals. Many people just don't have the self control for long enough to find a trophy pronghorn buck.

The last pronghorn buck I took green scored 82 3/8, and before finding him, I had laid eyes on probably 100-150 other bucks. I harvested him on the third day of my hunt. There were several bucks that were probably 75-78" that dang near got the bullet, I had to talk myself out of it, because I knew they likely weren't breaking my bar of 80", but knew they were close. However, I have spent hours looking at videos of bucks with known scores practicing to get better at judging goats, they are not easy. I keep pictures of 75", 80" and 85" goats on my phone to reference when glassing one up.

I completely understand what your getting at, and I too endorse the point of attempting to harvest mature animals, and letting the young ones walk. This post is not for people like me and you and others that already do this, there is no point to patting ourselves on the back. I think you made this post for the people that may want to do this, or haven't done it yet, but might try "trophy", or "mature animal" hunting yet, and you are attempting to prove a case for why this type of hunting can be more beneficial as a conservationist, and a hunter. I completely back you up on that. If that is what your trying to do, then I think there are a couple places where some change in tactics may help to better achieve your goal. Please don't take offense to this, I am trying to help your end goal....

I understand your frustration, I have been there too, but starting off a post on a defensive, and subtle threatening (will block you) tone is going to render far less success in changing people's minds, than something like suggesting a slightly alternative approach to the way one hunts. The vast majority of people here are intelligent, common sense folks, and if you present a fact based, non-confrontational, common sense argument, you stand a good chance at winning people over vs an argument that sounds like "I'm gonna say this and hurt some feelings and don't care about your feelings because I'm right about this". Even if everything in the latter argument is true, the fact is, if people with an opposed mindset enter your debate, and start off feeling disrespected, you certainly aren't going to change their mind, it will just be a pointless argument of opposed opinions.

I say all this because the same post last year rendered similar results to this one. Either people that already agreed with you continued to agree with you, or people that didn't agree just argued with you. No one's mind got changed, no one really considers the others methods, and no ground was really gained in accomplishing your goal.

I respect you, and I know you aren't necessarily here to make friends, shake hands and kiss babies, but because of my respect for you I felt compelled to write this post. We all should strive to learn and grow, as well as gain and give knowledge to and from each other, but for one person to listen to another, there must be a mutual respect brother!

I hope this post is taken as the way it is intended, there is a lot of frustration in our world today, and at times it can be challenging to have the "give a dam" to take the time and effort needed to present a challenging subject tactfully, but that is all I'm trying to do.

Take care, and God bless.

Happy independence day as well. America!
 

Southern 62

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Joined
May 21, 2022
Messages
175
Location
Georgia
I remember a very similar post last year, also about pronghorn.

Growing up here in Wyoming, I have seen a ridiculous amount of pronghorn taken, and I do have to say, they are probably the most poorly judged big game animals we have to offer. Pronghorn can get hard to judge, and when you see so many of them that is essentially becomes "shopping" for your animal, a 72" buck with decent diggers may seem like a standout from all the small bucks you have been seeing, that it seems mature. However often times with mule deer and elk, you don't even see any legal animals. Many people just don't have the self control for long enough to find a trophy pronghorn buck.

The last pronghorn buck I took green scored 82 3/8, and before finding him, I had laid eyes on probably 100-150 other bucks. I harvested him on the third day of my hunt. There were several bucks that were probably 75-78" that dang near got the bullet, I had to talk myself out of it, because I knew they likely weren't breaking my bar of 80", but knew they were close. However, I have spent hours looking at videos of bucks with known scores practicing to get better at judging goats, they are not easy. I keep pictures of 75", 80" and 85" goats on my phone to reference when glassing one up.

I completely understand what your getting at, and I too endorse the point of attempting to harvest mature animals, and letting the young ones walk. This post is not for people like me and you and others that already do this, there is no point to patting ourselves on the back. I think you made this post for the people that may want to do this, or haven't done it yet, but might try "trophy", or "mature animal" hunting yet, and you are attempting to prove a case for why this type of hunting can be more beneficial as a conservationist, and a hunter. I completely back you up on that. If that is what your trying to do, then I think there are a couple places where some change in tactics may help to better achieve your goal. Please don't take offense to this, I am trying to help your end goal....

I understand your frustration, I have been there too, but starting off a post on a defensive, and subtle threatening (will block you) tone is going to render far less success in changing people's minds, than something like suggesting a slightly alternative approach to the way one hunts. The vast majority of people here are intelligent, common sense folks, and if you present a fact based, non-confrontational, common sense argument, you stand a good chance at winning people over vs an argument that sounds like "I'm gonna say this and hurt some feelings and don't care about your feelings because I'm right about this". Even if everything in the latter argument is true, the fact is, if people with an opposed mindset enter your debate, and start off feeling disrespected, you certainly aren't going to change their mind, it will just be a pointless argument of opposed opinions.

I say all this because the same post last year rendered similar results to this one. Either people that already agreed with you continued to agree with you, or people that didn't agree just argued with you. No one's mind got changed, no one really considers the others methods, and no ground was really gained in accomplishing your goal.

I respect you, and I know you aren't necessarily here to make friends, shake hands and kiss babies, but because of my respect for you I felt compelled to write this post. We all should strive to learn and grow, as well as gain and give knowledge to and from each other, but for one person to listen to another, there must be a mutual respect brother!

I hope this post is taken as the way it is intended, there is a lot of frustration in our world today, and at times it can be challenging to have the "give a dam" to take the time and effort needed to present a challenging subject tactfully, but that is all I'm trying to do.

Take care, and God bless.

Happy independence day as well. America!
Exactly what needed to be said. Thank You
 

birddog 68

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Joined
Jan 7, 2022
Messages
915
Location
Pennsylvania
Now that the OP is ignoring me I will tell a story. I got serious about archery hunting 20+ years ago and learned everything on my own by trial and error. I decided to hunt Ohio on my own and after 5 days of dark to dark hunting I connected on a buck. I took him to the check station and was belittled by another hunter for shooting a small buck. He was 125”. I returned to Ohio yearly passing up 140” deer to prove that I could shoot a 160”. After 3 years I decided to shoot a smaller buck since I was the only person that needed to be happy with my harvest. Pic below is my 140”. I refuse to belittle anyone for a legal harvest!
 

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338 dude

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Tn
Now that the OP is ignoring me I will tell a story. I got serious about archery hunting 20+ years ago and learned everything on my own by trial and error. I decided to hunt Ohio on my own and after 5 days of dark to dark hunting I connected on a buck. I took him to the check station and was belittled by another hunter for shooting a small buck. He was 125”. I returned to Ohio yearly passing up 140” deer to prove that I could shoot a 160”. After 3 years I decided to shoot a smaller buck since I was the only person that needed to be happy with my harvest. Pic below is my 140”. I refuse to belittle anyone for a legal harvest!
I’ve never scored a deer really don’t know exactly how to go about it but I doubt anything I have would score 125 ,as with beauty trophies are in the eye of the beholder. that’s a great deer in your picture and I’m sure the 125 was a great deer as well!
 

cornshank

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Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Messages
1,144
Location
california
trying to get everyone to do the same thing.
If it was easy to to do , we could change a whole lot, but it’s not happening .
Another aspect is if you pass up a smaller animal , the next guy might not , so it got harvested anyway , 1/4 away from you or the next day, etc...
A lot of people spend a lot of time and effort to hunt, so if it’s legal , have fun .
 

tomsd

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Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
528
There's quite a few of you that will read this post and you'll just get mad and try to tell me how it is. Cool, you do that. I will hit "ignore" on every one of you without hesitation. If you want to disagree, you better do so in a manner befitting a Christian. Fact is, I have almost nothing in common with most "hunters" these days, and I'd rather be disliked by all of them than be "popular" among that crowd.

This post is for the rest of you. The guys that are trying to be good responsible sportsmen that know how to manage our resources.

My request is this: Learn how to score on the hoof. Stop shooting immature animals. If you want food and the joy of the hunt... do it with a doe. They taste better.

That is all.

I'm out scouting for pronghorn, as I usually do this time of year. Some areas of the country you see massive pronghorn regularly. Tags are hard to get in those areas. Permission to hunt, even harder to get. They grow big there, because most hunters are kept out.

That's not true of my area. Here, there isn't much for sizable pronghorn. Fewer and fewer sizable anything, actually.

It's a sad reality when in order to foster trophy animals, hunters must be kept away. Yet, despite how sad, that is very true of many hunters. We're suppose to care... not just look for instant gratification of a kill on our vacation from our life, wife, and job.

Took this guys picture 15 minutes ago... and I know the majority of hunters would blast him if given the opportunity. Sure, he's a "nice" goat. He's got decent cutters, decent length, decent mass, and there's even some ivory there.

Though he sure doesn't have much of a curl does he? I bet he's 3yrs old is all. Next year he'll be nice. Two years, he'll be a STUD! What do you think he scores?

sGoB5grh.jpg


Now compare what you see above, to a real trophy pronghorn. Here's a 90" goat from pronghornguideservice instagram page:
Uz7qbtUh.jpg


Now what do you think that first goat I posted scored?

I'm talking about pronghorn here, but the same applies to every species. Just let them walk. What is the big deal? Shoot a doe for as many years as you need to foster some proper management of the species. Teach this restraint to the younger generation. If you don't, then $10,000+ per hunt guides will be the only place any of us get to hunt a real trophy. You can very likely still do all the things that are important to you on your hunt without shooting an immature buck.


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Sort of the age old question - hunting for meat or for a rack? And how many "doe" tags are issued?
 

squirrelslayer

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Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
4
I don’t hunt to kill
I kill in order to have hunted.

I remember my sons first deer. We were sitting on the ground, him at 9 yrs old. A yearling doe and the doe came walking by at 25 yards. He got the yearling, and Hi Fives!!! Then a prayer. The Best part of the hunt. As yeas went by we done parent child hunts here in Ga. Okey Woods WMA. Every year almost he got a doe. Then on a power line in climbing stands, me beneath him as broke off spike made a mistake!!! Yep another prayer🙏🏻 His last hunt at 16 on the same power line a nice ( for Ga) 8 pt. Stepped out. His shot true enough. After a short tracking job we found him. As I held his hand what I thought was going to be a prayer from me didn’t happen. He looked at me and said…. Not this time pop. He prayed!!!! I Cried like a baby. 62 now and he’s dragging my deer.

I think I taught him just fine!!!!

Jimmy
"I Cried like a baby."
Just like I did when I read this story. GREAT work!
 

yoteslayer

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Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
274
you know I like killing mature animal just as much as the next guy but the bottom line who do you think you are to tell others what they should be doing on a legal hunt that’s the problem with the world anymore everyone thinks there there yo tell others what to and what not to do plus our area has no doe hunts and what if you have a child trying to get its first animal
 
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