Least fussy mono-metal bullet?

codyadams

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What would be the major concern? Seriously
The issues with large, very overbore cartridges and low density charges, especially with faster burning powders, is detonation. When there is too much air space in the case, if the primer flash is able to flash over the top of the powder in the case, instead of having the powder up against the primer flash hole, then instead of getting a controlled burn and expansion of pressure as the powder burns, a large portion of the powder all ignites at once, and instead of the controlled burn, it is an instantaneous detonation, with a massive pressure spike that, at a bare minimum, locks the rifle up and often breaks a few things, and on the other end, completely ka-boom's the rifle, and can cause major injuries to the shooter.

The other issue is it won't necessarily happen every time, you could develop a load at the range and have it working fine, but then you go out hunting with it, have the rifle pointing downward, the powder leaves air space between the flash hole and the powder, then you pull up to shoot and your rifle explodes in your hand.

The other place you see this happen sometimes is with reduced loads in standard rifles, such as a 30-06. I have seen evidence of people loading reduced loads in 30-06, .270 wins and other similar rifles using slow burning pistol powders. Some shot the load many, many times. There was recently a thread on here where a guy did just that, and was having a young kid shoot it, and nearly had a ka-boom, it locked up his rifle, and I believe broke his firing pin.

The case capacity of a 7 Allen Magnum is around 122 grains, according to this thread, post # 6 -


However with powder at least in reference to the detonation concern, you don't look at fill volume by weight in comparison to H2O, but case volume fill. 90% of the 122 grains would be 109.8 grains, however powder doesn't take up the same amount of volume by weight as water. You have to look at case volume fill, not weight, adding in another factor. All this is the reason I would advise against using a powder like H4350 in a 7 AM, there are proven safe powders that Kirby does recommend that get great velocity, the risk (possibly damaging your gun up to blowing yourself up, at bare minimum more barrel wear on a 7 AM) vs reward (maybe a velocity gain?) simply does not add up. In the stated words of Kirby Allen, "With conventional bullets, even lightweight bullets, it would be very dangerous."
 
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ButterBean

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The issues with large, very overbore cartridges and low density charges, especially with faster burning powders, is detonation. When there is too much air space in the case, if the primer flash is able to flash over the top of the powder in the case, instead of having the powder up against the primer flash hole, then instead of getting a controlled burn and expansion of pressure as the powder burns, a large portion of the powder all ignites at once, and instead of the controlled burn, it is an instantaneous detonation, with a massive pressure spike that, at a bare minimum, locks the rifle up and often breaks a few things, and on the other end, completely ka-boom's the rifle, and can cause major injuries to the shooter.

The other issue is it won't necessarily happen every time, you could develop a load at the range and have it working fine, but then you go out hunting with it, have the rifle pointing downward, the powder leaves air space between the flash hole and the powder, then you pull up to shoot and your rifle explodes in your hand.

The other place you see this happen sometimes is with reduced loads in standard rifles, such as a 30-06. I have seen evidence of people loading reduced loads in 30-06, .270 wins and other similar rifles using slow burning pistol powders. Some shot the load many, many times. There was recently a thread on here where a guy did just that, and was having a young kid shoot it, and nearly had a ka-boom, it locked up his rifle, and I believe broke his firing pin.

The case capacity of a 7 Allen Magnum is around 122 grains, according to this thread, post # 6 -


However with powder at least in reference to the detonation concern, you don't look at fill volume by weight in comparison to H2O, but case volume fill. 90% of the 122 grains would be 109.8 grains, however powder doesn't take up the same amount of volume by weight as water. You have to look at case volume fill, not weight, adding in another factor. All this is the reason I would advise against using a powder like H4350 in a 7 AM, there are proven safe powders that Kirby does recommend that get great velocity, the risk (possibly damaging your gun up to blowing yourself up, at bare minimum more barrel wear on a 7 AM) vs reward (maybe a velocity gain?) simply does not add up. In the stated words of Kirby Allen, "With conventional bullets, even lightweight bullets, it would be very dangerous."
Baby laghing.gif

Bruh you saved my life, I really appreciate the tutorial, I just started reloading yesterday so this really helps me out, I'm sincerely glad your staying safe and nd not breaking any rules, I by no means would ever put anyone in danger but as I said before how do you think Mr. Allen got to where he is today ? And barrel wear ........ your shooting an Allen Mag for Pete's sake .........SMH and I mean no offense but I have said this a many times here , " There are folks that live on the borderline and there are folks that are just boards, Just Sayin
 

ButterBean

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Kirby wasn't quite like "no way"... He just didn't want to tell me to try it without having tried it himself. I'm not even sure what the total case capacity is on the 7 Allen, but I'm thinking maybe around 110? 90% of that would be 99 gr. I doubt I'll try it myself, as I'm not experienced enough for that kind of thing. Here's Kirby's words: "I recommend a powder that would get AT LEAST 90% load density and I do not think h4350 would work safely. I have not tested it so cannot say for sure, but until I do prove it safe, I cannot recommend. With conventional bullets, even lightweight bullets, it would be very dangerous."
Brother H4350 may be too fast and I also load everything at 90%+ and I as said before I may be way off base, Just stay safe and do what you want to do, That's all that really matters to me.
 

codyadams

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View attachment 316545
Bruh you saved my life, I really appreciate the tutorial, I just started reloading yesterday so this really helps me out, I'm sincerely glad your staying safe and nd not breaking any rules, I by no means would ever put anyone in danger but as I said before how do you think Mr. Allen got to where he is today ? And barrel wear ........ your shooting an Allen Mag for Pete's sake .........SMH and I mean no offense but I have said this a many times here , " There are folks that live on the borderline and there are folks that are just boards, Just Sayin
You asked the question of what the major concern is, and I answered you in a respectful, factual and information based manner, and you respond with a gif, and a sarcastic, condescending tone. Way to show your true colors bean. Keep holdin fur at 500, I don't have much more to say. Take care, and have a good day man.
 

ButterBean

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You asked the question of what the major concern is, and I answered you in a respectful, factual and information based manner, and you respond with a gif, and a sarcastic, condescending tone. Way to show your true colors bean. Keep holdin fur at 500, I don't have much more to say. Take care, and have a good day man.
Neighbor, I assumed since we are talking Allen Magnums That all of that was common knowledge, Obviously I was mistaken and I took your post as condescending and belittling with the history lesson and all. The key words in Mr. Allen's post are " With conventional bullets, even lightweight bullets," Hammer Bullets are unconventional. I'm not gonna get in to the same argument here again so I'll leave it at that, As for my true colors? Yes Sir that's them, Allen Magnum, 338 Lapua Parent case, 63,500 psi listed as safe, The 177 Hammer with it's reduced PDR will decrease this dramatically, [email protected] 100 grains will be a 90% case fill, Will it be too fast? Maybe but We will never know until you try, once again no offense intended and you have a great day
 

Wedgy

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Coppers/monos generally like lots of jump
Cutting Edge says their bullets shoot best when seated at the lands. BTW their Lazers placed in 13 of the top 15 spots at the last King of 2 Miles. Why ? I have no idea. Maybe they sponsor all the shooters but either way that is an outstanding accomplishment,
 

phorwath

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I'm gonna try some Cutting Edge Lazers in my 338 LAI, because I prefer tipped bullets.

From my internet research, others report positively on terminal performance and precision.

But I didn't know about them shooting best seated at the lands. With the seal-tite band, that seems complicated, no? Wouldn't the sealtite band be buried into the throat before the ogive of the bullets touch the lands? Is that OK?

Cutting Edge says their bullets shoot best when seated at the lands. BTW their Lazers placed in 13 of the top 15 spots at the last King of 2 Miles. Why ? I have no idea. Maybe they sponsor all the shooters but either way that is an outstanding accomplishment.
 
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Grizzly60

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Had the same woes as you with the Barnes TSX…just could not get them to group worth a heck.
Just recently I bought a 300 RUM, can’t get dies, so looked high and low for ammo. Only ammo I could get was Barnes TTSX and LRX.
I have to say I am pleasantly surprised, the 165g TTSX put 12 shots into less than an inch off my regular bag set-up off my homemade bench. The 180g TTSX proved to be the same as 5 shots went into a ragged hole.
I also have 190g LRX to try out, which was supposed to happen this weekend, but the weather was woeful.
I have to say I am impressed, as my previous experience had me telling everyone that Barnes bullets don’t shoot.

Cheers.
I've had good results with Barnes. Just have to customize them to the rifle. Use them in 308, 300 WSM and 300 WM. Shoot well and preform well.
 

Wedgy

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With the seal-tite band, that seems complicated, no? Would the seal-tite band engrave into the lands before the ogive of the bullets touch the lands?
The ogive contacts before the sealtite band on all the bullets I have loaded, Raptors, MTH, and Lazers. Photo is a 140 grain .264 Lazer.
I should clarify a bit, Nicky at CEB said they shoot best at the lands,
2nd best from .001-.005" off, then from .020-.030'' off.
LLLLAzer.jpg
 

phorwath

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The ogive contacts before the sealtite band on all the bullets I have loaded, Raptors, MTH, and Lazers. Photo is a 140 grain .264 Lazer.
I should clarify a bit, Nicky at CEB said they shoot best at the lands,
2nd best from .001-.005" off, then from .020-.030'' off.
View attachment 317049

I messed up my question.

It's OK to bury the sealtite band into the throat, in order to touch the lands with the ogive?

I'll go back up above and correct my prior post...
 

Wedgy

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I messed up my question.

It's OK to bury the sealtite band into the throat, in order to touch the lands with the ogive?

I'll go back up above and correct my prior post...
Mine seem to all sit right at the case mouth at 0.025" off
I never thought it was the band hitting the end of the chamber or snagging on the throat but looks like I will be coating a few with Dykem to find out. I hit a basketball size rock 3 out of 3 times at 1,450 yards the the 275 grain Lazer from my Edge, that's the farthest I could get my sig to range. So i'm happy with how they shoot but I may try them at 0.005" off. Yes I ordered a new BR4000 and will start playing with it shortly.
The target is a 500 yard ladder test with the 140 grain Lazer from a 7 twist 6.5x284 and H1000, I got about 100fps faster with retumbo but still have 2 loads to shoot before I decide, but they shoot really well.
lazer500.jpg

p1.jpg
Gear_Stoney_Point_OAL_interiorWEB.jpg
 
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Northkill

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I would think it would be around 90% but H4350 may well indeed be too fast, there is only one way to find out, I can assure you that with the 172 Hammers Retumbo will be way too slow
I'm with you on the Absolutes. Don't think he had much if any experience with them before trying them in my rifle. I think the powder being too slow was the reason for the lower velocity than the 169 HH. I'll discuss this more with Kirby before trying something new, but we got plenty of time till next season to tune and play. 👍 I'm not quite as bold as some guys and will play from the safe side to get the feel of things and go easy into it.
 
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