Lazzeroni's .264 Phantom?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by David P. Herne, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. David P. Herne

    David P. Herne Well-Known Member

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    Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Gentlemen,
    I've never owned a precision rifle chambered for anything lighter than a .284 caliber cartridge. But as I get older and wiser, lighter cartridges appeal to me more and more. Recently, I decided that my next rifle was gonna be something in either .257 or .264 caliber, but finalizing this decision has proven tough as almost every single .257 and .264 caliber cartridge ever developed is a real winner. To make matters worse, a friend of mine recently directed my attention to Lazzeroni's .264 Phantom, a cartridge which (at least from ballistics chart's published at Lazzeroni's website), looks to be about 100-150 fps faster (avg.) than the 6.5mm-.284 Norma with 140-grain bullets. Hmmmm. What can you fellas tell me about this cartridge's performance and or the cost and quality of the brass?

    Regards,
    Dave
     
  2. texas

    texas Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Young people get older and older people get younger [​IMG]
     
  3. DANTEC

    DANTEC Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    as 6.5 magnum "hot rod" I prefer the very good 6.5/300 Wea , nothing really amazing but
    proven accuracy
    far enought ( a bit too much powder in fact )
    good case available from DIFFERENT suppliers and no monopoly
    good reloading data
    no real costly dies specialy in competition set of dies

    over water capacity of the 6.5/300 Wea you are so much overbore that you get serious powder choice , very slow powder as 30 mm canaon powder is VERY DURTY in small bore and carbon fouling kill accuracy quick , coarse grain of powder make lot of pain to load the case ....

    for my use I use a own design wilcat ( 6.5 / 300 DTC YUMA ) which is a 264 WIN make in 300 WIN mag to get a longer neck " à la 6.5/300 Wea " and don t have any case suppliers problem
    case forming is made only with regular reload die
    338 WIN full sizer
    30.338 WIN full sizer
    7 REM mag full sizer
    264 WIN set of die as reloading die with just a modified floating chamber to allow longer neck
    I use 7 REM MAG Redding S DIE as neck die

    I get 3300 fps easy in a 30 inch barrel and that enought to be able to shoot a string to make a group I have devellop this caliber to supersonic with 139/142 at 1 mile .

    some shooter reach 3400 fps in a 34 inch barrel with case full of 50 cal powder compressed but I prefer milder load .

    if you just hunt or shoot less 6.5/300 WEA can be a good choice for less money than Lazzeroni cartridge specialy if you hunt and carry the rifle you surely not use a 32 inch barrel .

    With a 27 inch ( able to be carry easy ) a 264 WIN mag with pararel throat can be a good choice too specialy with new range of powder as Retumbo ....don t forget that new age powder are far better performance than 4851 powder use in the 60's

    good shooting

    DAN TEC
     
  4. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Dave, depends on what you want to use it for and how portable this rifle is. I am on a 6.5 kick right now so that is the cal I would recommend. for reg. hunting and shorter distances (400yds in), the 260 is wonderful. Light recoil, very accurate, no problem with components or cost. I am putting together a 6.5 wildcat called the Mystic which give more performance to this case. 140gr bullets are still around 2800 to 2900fps.

    If you want to go over 2900fps, the 6.5-284 is a good one. Very accurate, well developed, excellent brass life but a little harder to get feeding properly. Use a mid to stand action and throat accordingly.

    The 6.5-06 is an excellent wildcat for a hunting rifle. Performance is the 270 range but using the "superior" 6.5 bullets.

    If you want a heavy bench gun and more vel, then the 6.5WSM is an excellent choice. When you start to get over 3100fps, you have to be watchful for bullet blowup or deformation. The long VLD bullets usually don't like going over 3100fps at high spin rates. You should be able to use the SST's for higher vel without trouble.

    For a real barrel burner and max vel, the 6.5 Wby, 6.5STW, and other super overbore monsters will work. Just go with the longest barrel you can, super slow powders and enjoy. 3200 to 3500fps is possible if the bullets stay together. Much higher per shot costs and increased bore wear...can be finicky

    Jerry
     
  5. frankg

    frankg Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Houston Boy, I think you may want to look at the 264 win mag or 264 win mag improved. The velocite is quite a bit greater than the 6.6x284 and the brass is easily formed from 7mm mag brass.
    I looked at the Lazzaroni line a while back but in my opinion they don't do anything special and the brass is very expensive.
     
  6. frankg

    frankg Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Also, Lazaroni lists a 140gr bullet at 3109fps with 26inch barrel,for the Patriot.
    My Speer manual lists a 140gr bullet at 3130fps with a 24 inch barrel.My .264Win mag improved is a lot faster.
    And if you are looking for speed these numbers are all irrelevant compared to the 6.5 x 300Weatherby Mag,and a long enough barrel.
    In my other post I meant 6.5 x 284
     
  7. David P. Herne

    David P. Herne Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Jerry,
    I think you've nudged me even closer to going for the chambering that currently seems to be the most luminous and revered of all cartridges in the subject weight class - the 6.5mm-.284 Norma. I suppose I should have simply asked: "How many of you would build a medium-weight repeater chambered for the Lazzeroni .264 Phantom over the 6.5mm-.284 Norma, if you wanted an all around hunting rig that could reasonably be lugged all day long, be super-accurate, not tear the shit out of even small game at < 200 yards, but still work well on deer-sized game at > 600 yards?"

    The rifle I envision will be built around a Nesika Bay Precision Hunter Series action, having a McMillan Nesika Varmint stock and a 26" medium varmint/bull taper barrel (i.e. probably 1.200" for 2" tapering to .925" at the muzzle). And I think the feed ramp on these actions will make short work of that stubby cartridge with it's 35 degree angle shoulder.

    But hey, nothing is set in stone. That's why I share these thoughts here. What do you think and how, if at all, would you change the basic design? For instance, I've also thought I might use the Dakota 76 action, or even better, the Dakota 97 action. Of course, a LH version of the latter of these actions is currently not available. But it might be very soon with Nesika Bay Precision and Dakota Arms having recently merged (Nesika's manufacturing capability is now Dakota Arms manufacturing capability. And LH versions of all Nesika Bay's actions have always been available.)

    Regards,
    Dave
     
  8. texas

    texas Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Look at the Montana Rifleman action 1999, I think you can get it in LH.
     
  9. David P. Herne

    David P. Herne Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    Tex,
    You're just my guardian angel this year, aren't you? I'm en route to check out this Montana Rifleman action right now. I'll e-mail ya my impression!

    See ya,
    Dave
     
  10. DANTEC

    DANTEC Well-Known Member

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    Re: Lazzeroni\'s .264 Phantom?

    for long range hunting ( not bench rest with hight capacity 6.5 mm better to go in 27.5 with a 0.75 at the muzzle , long barrel increase really the bullet velocity in over bore case and you dont need real bull barrel for hunting , profile as heavy or medium Palma with longer cylinder at the chamber ( 4 inch ) can be a real nice choice

    good shooting

    DAN TEC