Latest opinion on Remington Ultimate?

[Rick Richard]

Considering the possibilities for a long range muzzleloader and curious what the latest reviews are on the Remington Ultimate for folks that have first hand experience with these. Also, would like other recommendations for other MZ's that are capable of long range accuracy using black powder or equivalent propellant.

Thanks in advancem
Rick

 

[ENCORE]

Considering the possibilities for a long range muzzleloader and curious what the latest reviews are on the Remington Ultimate for folks that have first hand experience with these. Also, would like other recommendations for other MZ's that are capable of long range accuracy using black powder or equivalent propellant.

Thanks in advancem
Rick

Many shooters, not plinkers, are getting less than moa at 300yds. I know of one shooter who is getting moa at 700yds, but he's FAR from a plinker.

Remington has came a long way with their barrels since the initial release, where a few bad barrels got out. Because they are "different" than what some guys are used to (shrink wrapped break open rifles), some have had difficulty accepting the change.

There's a couple things you should know. First, most muzzleloader shooters are "extended season hunters". Most have never shot beyond 100yds. Next, they hear about a long range muzzleloader, buy one and put a $50 scope and $30 rings on it, thinking they will be shooting single hole groups at 300yds. Ain't going to happen. You can't hit what you can't see. Example... take a 3" circle and place it 300yds away, then look through a variable at 7x or 9x scope at it. Its pretty tiny.

The rifle has extremely heavy recoil and they are NOT for the recoil shy when shooting near or maximum charges. Some shooters will actually tell you the recoil is "violent".
Because of the recoil, the strongest mounts and rings are HIGHLY recommended. The rifle will destroy cheap mounts, rings and scopes. You will never maintain tight groups when the scope, mounts and rings move. It takes quality and proper mounting with such recoil.

They have their advantages, such as just dropping a primed case into the chamber and closing the bolt. You can do it with heavy gloves easily at -10. If you use T7M pellets instead of loose or Pyrodex, you can completely clean the rifle with 5 patches. Yes, you must swab between shots. You re-prime your brass case, which to some is more work while they're watching re-runs on TV.

If you want a much better long range BP or BPS rifle, much higher in quality which includes price, you should look at the Ultimate Firearms Inc. BP Xpress rifle. Believe me when I say, they are more accurate than most shooters can shoot.
Muzzleloader - Long Range Muzzleloader - Custom Muzzleloader: Ultimate Firearms

Examples:



My very first 500yd 3-shot group. Witnessed and signed.

 

[Rick Richard]

Encore, what propellant was used to shoot those groups you have posted? By the way, I have extensive long range shooting experience and have owned several muzzliaders both modern and traditional, but nothing that I would consider long range capable. I am wanting something to use for a New Mexico elk hunt since it seems tags are easier to obtain for muzzleloader than rifle in some units.

 

[ENCORE]

Encore, what propellant was used to shoot those groups you have posted? By the way, I have extensive long range shooting experience and have owned several muzzloaders both modern and traditional, but nothing that I would consider long range capable. I am wanting something to use for a New Mexico elk hunt since it seems tags are easier to obtain for muzzleloader than rifle in some units.

WARNING! DO NOT SHOOT THE FOLLOWING CHARGES FROM RIFLES NOT DESIGNATED TO SHOOT THIS HEAVY A CHARGE. THE REMINGTON ULTIMATE OR THE ULTIMATE FIREARMS RIFLES ARE BUILT TO WITHSTAND THESE HIGH CHARGES. READ YOUR OWNERS MANUAL FOR PROPER CHARGES.



3 guys here in MI are shooting the identical load as we shoot from BP Xpress rifles.
3-T7M pellets (180grs), Harvester H5045LB sabot, Hornady 300gr SST.
The guy shooting 700yds at PAPER, is rouge, shooting heavy charges of BH209 and Parker Match Hunter bullets.

The target photos I posted were shot by me from my Ultimate Firearms BP Xpress. I use 3-T7M pellets, H5045LB sabots and a 300gr Hornady SST bullet. Targets were shot from a bench with a front rest and rear bag. My scope at the time, was a Leupold VX6, 3-18x50 CDS w/firedot reticle. I just mounted a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50 to my rifle this morning.

NOTE: Please remember both the RU and UF Inc. rifles, have ignition systems designed for pellets. Either of those rifles will shoot loose propellants, but ignition is faster and pressures spike quicker with T7M pellets. UF Inc. specifically does NOT list BH209 as an approved propellant, nor does the RU manual.

 

[Rick Richard]

Encore, thanks for the info.

 

[redbullitt]

Awesome rifle. I would have one were it not for the savage MLII I picked up a while back.

Check out parker productions if you have not... He makes some awesome long range muzzleloader bullets with very good BC AND terminal effect.

 

[ENCORE]

Awesome rifle. I would have one were it not for the savage MLII I picked up a while back.

Check out parker productions if you have not... He makes some awesome long range muzzleloader bullets with very good BC AND terminal effect.

Just note that the Parker Match Hunter bullets are NOT a good choice for hunting from either the Remington Ultimate or the Ultimate Firearms rifles. Bob will tell you not to use the MH from either rifle for hunting. Bob will tell you that you can not drive them fast enough from either rifle for them to function (expand) properly. He will suggest the Ballistic Extreme (BE) for hunting.

 

[MuzzieLo@der]

Encore I just got a The RUML and the book does not list BH209 but does not specify it is not approved. I contacted them directly and was told there are no issues shooting BL209 in their rifle.

 

[ENCORE]

Encore I just got a The RUML and the book does not list BH209 but does not specify it is not approved. I contacted them directly and was told there are no issues shooting BL209 in their rifle.

I'd ask them then why are they not putting the load data in the owner's manual? Western hasn't listed loads either. I'll never say it won't ignite, because it does. Remington is replacing a lot of breech plugs, which they won't admit, but I know quite a few shooters that have received new breech plugs free of charge.
Head spacing has to be perfect and each fired case MUST be inspected for any gas leakage. Its improper head spacing and gas leaking that gas cuts the breech plugs, especially the nitro cellulous properties of BH209.
Even all the advertising Remington does with the RU, it always says pellets.......?????

 

[MuzzieLo@der]

Doesn't say anything in my brand new manual about being designed specificaly for pellets it lists pyrodex and triple 7 loose as approved/reccomended I also did find this article on Western Powder
website which contrary to what you said about not haveing posted data does say that their posted charges apply to the RUML and a max charge of 120gr is safe as they test high pressure loads.
http://blog.westernpowders.com/2017/09/remingtons-ultimate-muzzleloader/

 

[ENCORE]

Doesn't say anything in my brand new manual about being designed specificaly for pellets it lists pyrodex and triple 7 loose as approved/reccomended I also did find this article on Western Powder
website which contrary to what you said about not haveing posted data does say that their posted charges apply to the RUML and a max charge of 120gr is safe as they test high pressure loads.
http://blog.westernpowders.com/2017/09/remingtons-ultimate-muzzleloader/

"All of the Blackhorn 209 loads we developed were made to match the performance of three pellets of Triple 7 propellant, not in pressure, but in velocity. With its slower pressure curve, Blackhorn 209 typically develops higher velocity at lower pressures than other black powder or black powder substitutes. None of the loads, which are typically between 80 and 120 grains by volume, produced more than 25,000 psi in our test barrels. All of the 120 grain loads produced velocity comparable to, or greater than three fifty-grain pellets using the same bullet."

Notice what Western tried to match???? Why????

Remington DOES NOT list BH209 as an approved BP substitute. So because its not listed to NOT shoot, that means that it can be shot? The manual may have changed since the listing I posted, but look at the last paragraph on that page.

Western has done testing with the RUM and BH209. The whole BH209 and RUM craze started with a compensated writer who tried it and found out it would ignite in the RUM. I have documentation in email from Western discussing BH209 charges in both the RUM and UF rifles. Its much different than what you see written, believe me.

So in reality, you answered your own question by the post from Western. Its 120grs volume. But the issue remains the same..... Remington doesn't list it as an approved propellant. Their advertisements show pellets. The original patent holder designed the ignition system to immediately and fully ignite pellets. Will it ignite BP, pyrodex, T7 both loose and pellets? Yes.

 

[MuzzieLo@der]

https://ibb.co/fW08DG

 

[Dosh]

Rick, thr RUML is impressive. A friend's brother had one at the range several months ago. It was very accurate at 200yds. I particularly like the design and overall feel of it. Would be at the top of my list.

 

[ENCORE]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154805301780846&id=652420845