Larger diameter bullets allow more room for error?

[Milepost]

I think we are in agreement - Let me ask the question this way - do you believe the performance of the 6.5 140gr vld at 670 yards is equal to the 215 gr 308 bullet at 990?

Yes and no... Let me explain.

It is much easier to make have good bullet placement for a quick kill at 670 yards than at 990 and so I am confident that the 6.5 would do the same job.

The 215 at 990 or at ANY less range will be more forgiving because of punching a bigger hole (blood loss) more damage to bone, (shoulder or ribs) and 215 grains of fragmented bullet pieces compared to 140 grains of fragmented bullet in the vitals. This is why people say it is more forgiving at longer ranges.

Sometimes more is more!! Why would I limit myself to 670 yards using a 6.5 SAUM on a elk hunt when I can shoot out to 990 yards with a 300 WM?

 

[Greyfox]

I think John Taylor's "Knock Out" formula better accounts for the greater influence of bullet diameter and weight then FPE. It was based on knocking an elephant out with a shot to the head, but I believe it's applicable when considering killing power on any game with an expanding bullet.
Formula:
(Bullet dis.x weight x velocity) divided by 7500.

140g,264@3000FPS, KO 14.8
200g,308@3000FPS, KO 24.6
480g,458@2175FPS, KO 63.8

Decent guideline for deer, elk, and large dangerous game at close range?

 

[.300H&H]

Energy had to be part of the equation. Problem is it is not a significant part of the equation. You can hit an animal with xxx bullet and have it bounce off leaving all of its energy in the animal. Same shot with different xxx bullet that zips through without any bullet deformation. Leaving much less energy in the animal. Neither one is good. Thus the best purpose for the energy value of a given cartridge is to compare one to another.

Clear ballistics gel testing with video is getting closer to the front of the stove. Just time and money. I am not sure that that data transfers directly to animals. They are the variable that can't be duplicated.

100% agree.

 

[Milepost]

Ha now it's getting tougher! What are the impact velocities? I think the answers to this question are going to be almost purely opinion. Without knowing the impact vel of each scenario I am leaning toward the 308.

The 6.5 140 vld is moving along at 2200 fps
The 215 Hybrid is at 1800 fps

 

[FIGJAM]

Ha now it's getting tougher! What are the impact velocities? I think the answers to this question are going to be almost purely opinion. Without knowing the impact vel of each scenario I am leaning toward the 308.

Milepost will have to give us the velocity numbers, but the 6.5 at 670 will have to be higher than the 308 at 990.

 

[Milepost]

This thread is great for convincing myself I need a 338

I agree! You do need a 338.....LOL

 

[.300H&H]

Enjoyable to shoot or tolerable....?

First rule is to show respect for the animal you shoot by trying to get a DRT shot. If you can't shoot accurately or tolerate the caliber your shooting to accomplish that then you should move to a smaller caliber and get closer or shoot smaller game... just my 2 cents

I agree, if you can't shoot a 30cal+ well enough to take advantage of the extra bullet weight, diameter and down range energy by all means move down in caliber or cartridge. But don't turn around and say it's just as good as the one you couldn't shoot as well.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The 6.5 140 vld is moving along at 2200 fps
The 215 Hybrid is at 1800 fps

At these impact vel I think the 30 cal will have a significant advantage. My .02 and probably worth that.

 

[FIGJAM]

I think we are in agreement - Let me ask the question this way - do you believe the performance of the 6.5 140gr vld at 670 yards is equal to the 215 gr 308 bullet at 990?

If the answer is yes, then energy is the key factor for making the decision. If the answer is no, then the reason has to be the larger diameter is materially better. At the beginning of this post my answer would have been yes. Now I am still leaning that way, but less sure.

 

[FIGJAM]

This thread is great for convincing myself I need a 338

Haha - me too. I have been looking at 338 rums instead of 26 Noslers.

Also - this seems to be a good reason so many people go with the middle ground and choose the 7mm.

 

[FIGJAM]

Yes and no... Let me explain.

It is much easier to make have good bullet placement for a quick kill at 670 yards than at 990 and so I am confident that the 6.5 would do the same job.

The 215 at 990 or at ANY less range will be more forgiving because of punching a bigger hole (blood loss) more damage to bone, (shoulder or ribs) and 215 grains of fragmented bullet pieces compared to 140 grains of fragmented bullet in the vitals. This is why people say it is more forgiving at longer ranges.

Sometimes more is more!! Why would I limit myself to 670 yards using a 6.5 SAUM on a elk hunt when I can shoot out to 990 yards with a 300 WM?

Or could you trade in your 6.5 saum for a 6.5-300 wby and kill elk out to 990 with a 6.5 bullet?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

All things being equal. .308 cal is a 16.7% increase in frontal area over a .264 cal. This would translate into a 16.7% larger wound channel. Not a wound channel that is .044" larger in dia.

 

[Milepost]

It sounds like a good reason to add another rifle in your gunsafe! Sometimes you need a hedge trimmer and sometimes you need chainsaw. They both do similar jobs. It's the size of the job that's different....LOL

Winchester was on the right track 60 years ago when they came out with three new cartridges. The 458 WM ''African", the 338 WM ''Alaskan" and the 264 WM ''Westerner''. It seems that we've just been trying to improve on their same theme since then...

 

[RockyMtnMT]

It sounds like a good reason to add another rifle in your gunsafe! Sometimes you need a hedge trimmer and sometimes you need chainsaw. They both do similar jobs. It's the size of the job that's different....LOL

Winchester was on the right track 60 years ago when they came out with three new cartridges. The 458 WM ''African", the 338 WM ''Alaskan" and the 264 WM ''Westerner''. It seems that we've just been trying to improve on their same theme since then...

And 300y was considered a long shot.