Lapua
- Thread starter Finris
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Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
They are BOTH improved 338 Lapua cases necked down to 30 Cal. and hold basicly the same amount of powder.
You can relate the 300 Weathetby improved rounds such as the 30 Goodling, the 308 Bear and the 30 DC Imp. only in a smaller version compared to the 338 Lapua Improved case.
The three mentioned are just the 300 Weatherby improved and theres not much difference between any of the three once they are improved from the 300 Weatherby case.
DC
You can relate the 300 Weathetby improved rounds such as the 30 Goodling, the 308 Bear and the 30 DC Imp. only in a smaller version compared to the 338 Lapua Improved case.
The three mentioned are just the 300 Weatherby improved and theres not much difference between any of the three once they are improved from the 300 Weatherby case.
DC
Finris
I have the 338 Yogi and I have been talking to a gunsmith that has the 30 wolf reamer and they are very close in case capacity. The Wolf has a shorter neck and the scolder is moved more forward on the wolf (than the yogi) giving it slightly more case capacity. Either case would work for long range work. In my opinion the 300g 338 would be easer to see the impacts when using the spotter method.
Crow Mag
I have the 338 Yogi and I have been talking to a gunsmith that has the 30 wolf reamer and they are very close in case capacity. The Wolf has a shorter neck and the scolder is moved more forward on the wolf (than the yogi) giving it slightly more case capacity. Either case would work for long range work. In my opinion the 300g 338 would be easer to see the impacts when using the spotter method.
Crow Mag
Brent
Well-Known Member
I'll add what's unique about my design. It's a tight .335" neck (turning required), 40 degree shoulder, about .007" per inch body taper and the neck has been increased to .405" in length. It's better than any other design, "for me", because it has all the features I wanted it to have, each for a certain reason.
Body taper... Fine for easy extraction but, adds about maximum increase in capacity blowing the body out can provide.
40 degree... Less throat errosion, better physical protection for the throat, in theory.
Extra long neck length... Reduces throat errosion to almost nothing on the bigest 30's, I'm told.
.335" NK... Better case life and consistancy.
The case itself was chosen for a fast 30 cal because of the extra well designed, stronger 338 Lapua parent case and the quality and consistancy it has an undisputed reputation for. The fatter case may have better efficiency in the end as well, getting better velocity with the same pressure. Case life and consitancy, good throat life at maximum speed with top pressures if it groups well there was what led me.
I just checked the water capacity on the two cases I fire formed the other day, they were 116.1gr and 116.3gr to the top, no bubble. Should be a grain or three over the 300 Ultra is all but, that with the possibility it may yield better MV at the same pressure gives me the opportunity to opperate at lower pressre and the same speed for even better case life over the Ultra, or achieve more speed at the same pressure... we shall see soon.
I loaded the Ultra I have and the 30/388 40 deg Imp both up with 200gr Accubonds using 90gr Retumbo and checked the MV, the Ultra with a 26" tube and the 30/338 LI with its 30". The Ultra was 3045 fps ave, and the LI was at 3080 fps. The longer bbl accounts for the difference in my judgement but, the LI showed less pressure on the primer by far... it was very noticable.
One final thing, I almost forgot was, I had the OAL up to 3.835" on the Ultra, which was .015" into the lands and MV was 3080 fps on it, coming back to 3.660" OAL reduced the MV to 3045 fps... For comparison sake, the LI's OAL was right in the middle of those two there, at 3.750" and right on the lands. The case on the LI is shorter so the effective case capacity may be closer to equal if the Ultra is compared to the LI when seated out to 3.835" and not 3.660", I'm not sure if the bullet's eating up about the same capacity at which OAL tho, something to look into...
One other thing to consider if the longer OAL is a better "apples to apples" comparison if you're focusing on the two's initial water capacity as a potential performance indicator is this, you may be single feeding the Ultra "only" to get those better MV's, where as the LI will easily allow you to use a standard 700 action and longer box, which can be fitted with minor work... More things to consider is all.
Body taper... Fine for easy extraction but, adds about maximum increase in capacity blowing the body out can provide.
40 degree... Less throat errosion, better physical protection for the throat, in theory.
Extra long neck length... Reduces throat errosion to almost nothing on the bigest 30's, I'm told.
.335" NK... Better case life and consistancy.
The case itself was chosen for a fast 30 cal because of the extra well designed, stronger 338 Lapua parent case and the quality and consistancy it has an undisputed reputation for. The fatter case may have better efficiency in the end as well, getting better velocity with the same pressure. Case life and consitancy, good throat life at maximum speed with top pressures if it groups well there was what led me.
I just checked the water capacity on the two cases I fire formed the other day, they were 116.1gr and 116.3gr to the top, no bubble. Should be a grain or three over the 300 Ultra is all but, that with the possibility it may yield better MV at the same pressure gives me the opportunity to opperate at lower pressre and the same speed for even better case life over the Ultra, or achieve more speed at the same pressure... we shall see soon.
I loaded the Ultra I have and the 30/388 40 deg Imp both up with 200gr Accubonds using 90gr Retumbo and checked the MV, the Ultra with a 26" tube and the 30/338 LI with its 30". The Ultra was 3045 fps ave, and the LI was at 3080 fps. The longer bbl accounts for the difference in my judgement but, the LI showed less pressure on the primer by far... it was very noticable.
One final thing, I almost forgot was, I had the OAL up to 3.835" on the Ultra, which was .015" into the lands and MV was 3080 fps on it, coming back to 3.660" OAL reduced the MV to 3045 fps... For comparison sake, the LI's OAL was right in the middle of those two there, at 3.750" and right on the lands. The case on the LI is shorter so the effective case capacity may be closer to equal if the Ultra is compared to the LI when seated out to 3.835" and not 3.660", I'm not sure if the bullet's eating up about the same capacity at which OAL tho, something to look into...
One other thing to consider if the longer OAL is a better "apples to apples" comparison if you're focusing on the two's initial water capacity as a potential performance indicator is this, you may be single feeding the Ultra "only" to get those better MV's, where as the LI will easily allow you to use a standard 700 action and longer box, which can be fitted with minor work... More things to consider is all.
Thank You all who gave a reply.I have one more question? Why isn't everyone useing fitted neck cases.My understanding is that you get the best accuracy and you don't have to resize and your brass should last indefinatly,unless your only useing realy max loads?
Finris
The cases on my 338 Yogi are neck turned to .002 smaller than the neck on the chamber. When I full length resize I bump the shoulder back .002 and I resize 7/8s of the neck so the case is pretty close to touching. The bullet is into the lands also. The loads I am using are close to Max loads and I have 16 firings on one lot of 50pc of brass and still shooting good.
Crow Mag
The cases on my 338 Yogi are neck turned to .002 smaller than the neck on the chamber. When I full length resize I bump the shoulder back .002 and I resize 7/8s of the neck so the case is pretty close to touching. The bullet is into the lands also. The loads I am using are close to Max loads and I have 16 firings on one lot of 50pc of brass and still shooting good.
Crow Mag
Brent
Well-Known Member
A couple reasons I won't be keeping the clearance any tighter than .002" total, like crow mag, it's a much greater chance that any grit getting in there is going to cause problems and I don't think it's likely to gain me much if anything.
The neck tension will also begin to vary as the brass work hardens in the neck area, but then again it will with a couple thou clearance a bit more too but, fitted necks totally rely on the spring back quality in each case itself.
I feel that running them through a die each time is going to maintain better overall consistancy, and consistancy in any component just gets rid of one more variable...
If you're seating the bullets down into, or through the "doughnut" that will form, you could loose the necessary clearance for consistant bullet release, just one more thing to consider. Any increase in neck diameter could be disasterous to you, others, the rifle, group size etc. Throw a little more clearance in there and lots of variables and concerns are done away with or extremely reduced...
Just my 2 cents.
The neck tension will also begin to vary as the brass work hardens in the neck area, but then again it will with a couple thou clearance a bit more too but, fitted necks totally rely on the spring back quality in each case itself.
I feel that running them through a die each time is going to maintain better overall consistancy, and consistancy in any component just gets rid of one more variable...
If you're seating the bullets down into, or through the "doughnut" that will form, you could loose the necessary clearance for consistant bullet release, just one more thing to consider. Any increase in neck diameter could be disasterous to you, others, the rifle, group size etc. Throw a little more clearance in there and lots of variables and concerns are done away with or extremely reduced...
Just my 2 cents.
G
Guest
Guest
finris,
I am using the the fitted neck cases.I am told that you do not have to resize with the add siffness of the case.I turned my necks down to 11.5 tho. the tight chamber should keep the neck in good enough shape to not have to resize at all. I should be getting my 300 wade exspress in afew days which is just my version of the 30-338 lapua improved with 40 degree shoulder. when it gets here I will keep everybody informed I believe it will be shooter.Mike Pallazo in Kent Washington was my gun smith on this
one.
[ 08-23-2003: Message edited by: Leupold Man ]
I am using the the fitted neck cases.I am told that you do not have to resize with the add siffness of the case.I turned my necks down to 11.5 tho. the tight chamber should keep the neck in good enough shape to not have to resize at all. I should be getting my 300 wade exspress in afew days which is just my version of the 30-338 lapua improved with 40 degree shoulder. when it gets here I will keep everybody informed I believe it will be shooter.Mike Pallazo in Kent Washington was my gun smith on this
one.
[ 08-23-2003: Message edited by: Leupold Man ]
Brent
Well-Known Member
LM,
what neck length and dia at the shoulder did you decide on? What's the barrel specs on yours?
what neck length and dia at the shoulder did you decide on? What's the barrel specs on yours?
G
Guest
Guest
Brent
the barrel leght is 34" long. starts at 1.350 on the chambered end and goes straight for about 5" and then its got a straight taper to 1" as far as the case deminsions I really won't know until I get it beacause I had 2 barrels built One was a 300 gonzo (june edition of PS)for target shooting.On the other I wanted a improved version of the Lapua in 30 cal. and did not want to buy another reamer and he suggested just using the Gonzo reamer and running it a little deeper to accomadate the longer case. After doing so he called me to let me know that I needed to name it. So when I get it here and a few cases fired I am going to send JGS and let them run the numbers for me and then I will be able to get your answers for you as correcty as possible. All I really know is that it will have a pretty long neck and that I will have to turn the necks to the same as the Gonzo. Should have it in a week or two I will keep you posted
the barrel leght is 34" long. starts at 1.350 on the chambered end and goes straight for about 5" and then its got a straight taper to 1" as far as the case deminsions I really won't know until I get it beacause I had 2 barrels built One was a 300 gonzo (june edition of PS)for target shooting.On the other I wanted a improved version of the Lapua in 30 cal. and did not want to buy another reamer and he suggested just using the Gonzo reamer and running it a little deeper to accomadate the longer case. After doing so he called me to let me know that I needed to name it. So when I get it here and a few cases fired I am going to send JGS and let them run the numbers for me and then I will be able to get your answers for you as correcty as possible. All I really know is that it will have a pretty long neck and that I will have to turn the necks to the same as the Gonzo. Should have it in a week or two I will keep you posted
