Known Loads too hot now..why

moisture laden air is denser therefore slowing the projectile faster than dry air. I think you have it backwards.

You've stated this backwards. The higher the humidity the less dense the air, given equal station pressures and temperatures.
 
Boss, I think Bob was refering to moisture in the chamber not barrel, which does lubricate the case in effect and not allowing any tention between the case and chamber wall.

If one accepts the perspective that the sidewalls of a cartridge case, when bone dry, prevent the case head from contacting the bolt face under full force/thrust created by the pressures within the cartridge, then excessive headspace in a chamber should not result in case head separations.

Truth is that cartridge case sidewalls are not strong enough in tensile strength to prevent the case head from slamming backward into the bolt face no matter how bone dry the exterior of the cartridge or the interior of the chamber. A fellow could solder the forward 7/8ths of the casing to the chamber and the case head will still separate under the force of repeated firings if the casing headspace is too sloppy.

Which means -> look for another cause of higher pressures.

PS: If anything I'd prefer to have less friction between the cartridge sidewalls and the chamber. Less friction might allow the casing to slide back into full contact with the bolt face prior to maximum bolt thrust force, reducing the likelihood of case head separations - but I doubt it. It all happens too quickly. I'll still take less friction over more any day, to enable easy fired-case extraction compared to harder fired-case extraction.
 
Wow that will teach me to shoot in the snow again. I guess I never really gave moisture that much thought. Rifle makers keep pushing steel barrel / synthetic stock rifles as 'go-anywhere all-purpose Alaska guns' but the moisture game just can't be beat up here at times.

I think out of everything written, the condensation on the inside of the barrel seems to me to be the highest probabilty as to what happened. I was shooting under a covered area, but the snow was still getting on my rifle. I observed the snow hitting the barrel, then rapidly evaporating. I can see that it would have cooled my barrel quick enough to condense the inside and then the projectile would have to displace it. I'll post back after I shoot these same loads again.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I was really questioning everything.
 
I think out of everything written, the condensation on the inside of the barrel seems to me to be the highest probabilty as to what happened. I was shooting under a covered area, but the snow was still getting on my rifle. I observed the snow hitting the barrel, then rapidly evaporating. I can see that it would have cooled my barrel quick enough to condense the inside and then the projectile would have to displace it. I'll post back after I shoot these same loads again.

This is not the cause of your excessive pressures. Guaranteed. Condensation doesn't form on warmer than air temperature steel, no matter how quickly it cools down. Condensation only forms when the steel is colder than ambient air temperatures. Colder than the dew point temperature.

Moisture from rain and snow and mud puddles is another matter. But condensation did not form within your bore at any point in time after your barrel warmed due to firing, up to a temperature higher than ambient air temperature.

I've shot in Alaska for 30 years. You're getting and listening to too many wive's tales. The explanation will be much more straightforward.
 
It's more to do with how the head of the case contacts the bolt head. A dry chamber acts like an accumulator where the force is applied to the bolt head and chamber evenly but with a wet chamber all the force slams back onto the bolt head and it has to take a more direct pressure spike than it would have to in a dry chamber.
My experience is with the BPC rifle, if your blow tubing and slober into your chamber your going to stick brass tight and will have excessive pressure signs, hammer out the case and dry out your chamber and rock on, only thing changing is the moisture in the chamber area. Trust me a wet, slick chamber will screw up your day up! I don't know the physics behind it, just know it works.:rolleyes:
 
I'll agree to disagree. I lubricated my chambers with a light coating of oil and had no problems whatsoever. And lubricating oil reduces the coefficient of friction more than water. I almost always run loads at powder charges higher than book maximums. If that consistently explains your observations, then more power to you. I have never experienced it going from the extremes of bone dry chambers, to oil lubricated chambers and cartridge casings.

It shouldn't take long for clhman to verify or refute your contention if he can get some water on the chamber walls and keep the water out of the bore. You get water in the bore and chamber pressures will rise. Wet the chamber walls and keep the water out of the bore forward of the bullet and you'll burn the barrel out trying to raise chamber pressure. Won't happen.
 
So, phorwath you seem to be an expert on this and you live in my neck of the woods and are familiar with the climate up here. Old wives tales aside, what would you do? Disregard my notes and tear apart my loads and try again or have another go at shooting them? Since I experienced this 'fluke' with 3 rifles? Or just try again? What if I run into bad weather this moose season? The last 2 yesars weather has been great and I've taken 2 moose, but maybe I back off in case I have to make a quick back up shot and the bolt is too stiff? Let me know what you think. Thanks.
 
Water will do it, a normal amount of oil will not. I would clean the gun and shoot it with dry cases it may be the problem may not, just an idea.
 
You didn't state if these cartridges were loaded back at the time of original load development, or if you loaded them up at a different cartridge reloading event. Are you using the same powder scale, brand and model number primers, the same brass casings, the same Lot of gun powder? Do you have a weight to calibrate your powder scale with and have you checked it's accuracy?

Change any of these components and if you were already operating near max you could begin to experience excessive pressure signs.

"Both loads showed giant shiny spots on the top of the brass and the bolt was hard to open." What's a giant shiny spot on the top of the brass mean? Are you describing a relatively small (compared to the entire case head) shiny spot on the case head from a bolt face plunger hole or extractor slot?

Hard bolt lift is subjective also. I've had everything from noticable stiff bolt lift to having to slam the bolt handle up with the palm of my hand - or it wouldn't budge.

If you're experiencing a huge increase in pressures, I'd check the powder scale for calibration first, after confirming you haven't switched any of the other components or swapped over to a new Lot and container of powder.

Report back after you figure it out?

These are the items/possiblities I would be checking out. You didn't say if these reloads were loaded in a same batch that didn't display high pressure signs in the earlier firings. Or if they were loaded in a later batch of reloading. You mentioned that you use a digital scale. Have you checked its calibration? Was it provided with a calibration weight of known weight? I've never used a digital scale. I use a balance beam scale. I wouldn't want to be forced to believe the digital print-out number without having a means of proofing it with a balance beam scale. Otherwise, what assurance is there that the digital number is correct? If your ammo was loaded in a different batch than the normal pressure loads, and your bore wasn't fouled with dirt, grease, crud, water, oil, or corrosion; I'd be looking for some change in some component or powder charge as the likely culprit.

Weather is only a concern if you let the snow, water, mud, or wind-blown debris access your bore. When hunting in Alaska, always criss-cross your muzzle with two pieces of electrical tape as an effort to prevent water, snow, mud, twigs, or other debris from getting into your bore when carrying in the field and hunting. You can shoot straight through the electrical tape with no affect on accuracy or pressure.

I have no idea why factory loaded 22-250 ammo would exibit high pressure unless you're bore was dirty/fouled with oil/grease/corrosion, and even then, it should only affect your first shot.

If you confirm the accuracy of your digital scale, load another round or two, and still get excessive pressure, drop your powder charges to a safer level.
 
Water will do it, a normal amount of oil will not. I would clean the gun and shoot it with dry cases it may be the problem may not, just an idea.

This is funny. OK. I'll definitely wet my finger tip with water and rub it around the exterior of one of my cartridge cases next time I shoot. If I survive the firing of this cartridge-wetted casing, I will then report back on the consequences. IF, I survive...

We need to add this tip to the Farmers' Almanac.
 
You've stated this backwards. The higher the humidity the less dense the air, given equal station pressures and temperatures.

Yes you are correct----I did indeed state this backwards.......... Should have clarified that in the afternoon relays it is the temperature that makes the difference and of course the humidity level is much lower otherwise there would not be a 35 degree difference in temperature from 8:30am to 2:00pm. The moisture difference relative to the amount of drop in trajectory is insignificant compared to temperature. It is less by a fraction of a percentage point.

Example and the 1k guys know this that a rifle sighted in during a practice round during a nice summer afternoon will come back the next morning and impact may be over 2 feet lower--been there done that.
 
----I did indeed state this backwards.......... Should have clarified that in the afternoon relays it is the temperature that makes the difference and of course the humidity level is much lower otherwise there would not be a 35 degree difference in temperature from 8:30am to 2:00pm. The moisture difference relative to the amount of drop in trajectory is insignificant compared to temperature. It is less by a fraction of a percentage point.

Example and the 1k guys know this that a rifle sighted in during a practice round during a nice summer afternoon will come back the next morning and impact may be over 2 feet lower--been there done that.

10-4! I knew that you already knew this. Atmosheric pressure and temperature have the greater affect on bullet trajectory, compared to varying percentages of relative humidity. It all comes down to the density of the atmosphere. The denser the atmosphere, the more bullet drop compared to a less dense atmosphere.
 
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This is funny. OK. I'll definitely wet my finger tip with water and rub it around the exterior of one of my cartridge cases next time I shoot. If I survive the firing of this cartridge-wetted casing, I will then report back on the consequences. IF, I survive...

We need to add this tip to the Farmers' Almanac.

I didn't even bring it up first, so there is obviously more than just me that think this. I know some guys hold to that excessive amounts of water on you case or in your chamber is causing enough displacement that it raises chamber pressure, either way it happens.
I don't know anyone who has blown anything up from this just high pressure signs.
Here's some others that have linked wet cases to pressure spikes.
Moisture vs Chamber Pressure - Sniper's Hide Forums
 
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