Just Conversation about Rifle Accuracy

[Mikecr]

Well, your friend might not be lying, but holding a different perspective.
If his frame of reference is ACCURACY, then it is entirely possible to shoot 3/4moa grouping, that remains within 1/2moa of his mark.

On the flipside, I have seen very good groups(some world records) that were flat out poor w/resp to accuracy.

 

[cfvickers]

Naa, we have been friends since we were toddlers. He's blowing smoke.

 

[Bart B]

I prefer to state accuracy as what one can expect all the time. Average group size is easily bettered most of the time, but exceeded some of the time. But most folks don't like to use the largest group fired as the accuracy level, even though it's the best and most correct one to use. A half MOA rifle's one that doesn't shoot larger than that.

With the exception of those few rifles with positive vertical shot compensation caused by barrel whip, all groups get bigger as range gets longer. That's caused by small spreads in muzzle velocity and bullet BC's and subtle air movements. Until someone proves that bullets know where they are in an imaginary group at mid range so the know what direction to change putting their path back towards the down range group center to make that group smaller, I'll stick with this.

 

[cfvickers]

Bart, that is what separates shooters like yourself and others on here who shoot regularly at what many would consider extreme ranges a better shot than me. I know what it takes for a rifle and load to be as consistent as possible, but my experience beyond 200 yards is very limited. But with your statement, I will revise my statement of accuracy for my 111 LRH and my preferred load to .77 inch at 200 yards. But I called that shot bad before I even knew exactly where it landed, in fact I was surprised it was not further off. But I can live with that! Because to me, that is a pretty dad gum good 200 yard group for a hunting rifle in any price range with me pulling the trigger.

 

[Bart B]

But with your statement, I will revise my statement of accuracy for my 111 LRH and my preferred load to .77 inch at 200 yards. But I called that shot bad before I even knew exactly where it landed, in fact I was surprised it was not further off. But I can live with that!

Calling a bad shot's fine with me. That happens. There's folks out there who sight in hunting rifles from standing without a sling that only shoot 1 or 2 shots at a 100 or 200 yard target and never strike the middle of the bullseye. But if the bullet strikes near where the shot was called, a few clicks on the sight will correct for it.

It's the greatest distance a shot will strike from where it's called that's my basis for accuracy goals. Double that distance and that's the worst I think one should accept for the group size all fired shots should fall inside of. If the maximum acceptable miss from point of call is 1/3 MOA, then a rifle and its ammo has to shoot no worse than 2/3 MOA. I couldn't care less what the size of the smallest group is; all the rest are larger, much larger.

 

[ltrshooter]

Interesting post. I guess part of the reason mention 100 yd results so much is that is a commonly available shooting distance that seems to be a standard even for the magazines and manufacturers. It really does't mean much though for what the rifle will do at greater distances. Someone mentioned the shooting system in an earlier post which includes the shooter...
Some observations that i see but are not really original.
I stopped shooting off a rest and use a bipod even when working up loads. I figure I never have a rest when hunting and definately need all the practice I can get.
My lighter carbon barreled rifle recoils more and if I do not mange the recoil pulse the same way each time, impact changes. My heavy barreled Remington shoots better now because it is easieer to get the same recoil management from me now that I realize how critical it is to hold the rifle the exact same way, get the exact same cheek weld/eye relief etc.
Some of my rifles shoot the same way cold and clean and some have poi shift unless fouled? The first shot is the one that counts when hunting.
Some loads shoot better at longer ranges even though they did not shoot as well as others at short range.
Since I got the carbon barreled 308 that was custom- built and realize that it is potentially capable of amaIng accuracy, I see more how the things I do wrong influences the results. I look at accuracy as starting with me and approach shooting a rifle like it was a bow now.
The bottom line is comparing rifle accuracy on the net is vague without knowing the quality of the ammo and shooter etc. I guess 100 yard 1 moa is a standard that doesn't mean too much unless you know the skill off the shooter, quality of ammo, kind of rest, optics, conditions and all the ingedients of the "shooting system."

 

[cfvickers]

I got tired of saying I had not fired a group over 200 yards so today I went out with my 111 LRH to a buddy's field and gave it a try. I shot three groups, though the first two didn't really look like groups. My bench was completely make shift and I was terribly unstable, but I finally got it worked out on the third group. each bullet hole you see in the 1st and second groups is marked 1 or 2 to denote which string it was fired in. there are only two marked 2, the other went right of the board. I changed my hold each time, and the first two my bench/little short table was way low and had me sitting in a chair and leaned over, could not get a hand on the front of the rifle because of the jacked up position I was in. But the last group I put a tool box on my folding table and then a better sand bag, this was quite a bit better. On the last group it shot 2.3 inches. the range was 445+/- 5. No range finder but geometry said 440 and I stepped off 450, and ballistic chart says between 440 and 450 considering 5.5 inches high at 100 and around 2.6 low at the given range. so 445 seems close.

So My factory rifle shot a group today that was .516 MOA out to 445 yards. I will see if I can duplicate it or do better when I get a better portable bench (soon now that I have done this) . I believe it weill actually do far better at this range than I did, and I will submit that the first 2 "groups/splatters" were caused by the guy pulling the trigger.