Is your bullet big enough, moving fast enough??

Kimber7man

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Agree - gonna play devils advocate for a moment. Not as much to rile anyone but to support that bullet size and speed matters just as much as placement. E.G. if you place a .22 Long rifle in the right spot at 400 yards, do you expect to kill an elk?

You‘re at both ends of the bell curve with your 195/3000+ fps and a 22LR at 400 yds.

I’m comfortable with my 6.5 SAUM/139 scenar combo.
 

dogz

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That's a darn good combo there Kimber7!

If you get this way this fall let me know and I'll buy you dinner.

Yesterday I loaded a bunch of 155 Scenars up for my Mt/308 for the fall and of course a bunch of 60 Horns for my 22/250:)

Ft Lb people on here would stroke out if they knew how many elk we've taken with Swifts and 22/250's in this part of the world. (with chest shots):):)
 

JMGamesniper19

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You‘re at both ends of the bell curve with your 195/3000+ fps and a 22LR at 400 yds.

I’m comfortable with my 6.5 SAUM/139 scenar combo.
I hear you, I have had a 6.5 GAP 4s for years and love the performance - fortunate to have heavier calibers probably like you do. If I only have a deer tag my 6.5 is my go to. If I have a combo tag for deer and elk and there is a 1% chance I might kill an elk, I gun up!
 

the blur

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My deer gun is a .243. They all die immediately. I laugh at the 30.06 guys.
My Elk rifle was a 7mm-08. I may downsize to a 6.5 cm. I sit at the range for hours.
I have seem many hunters at camp loose an Elk with a big magnum cartridge. For me, I could not sit at the range all day with a magnum rifle.
 

BrentM

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Terminal ballistics is often ignored these days. Ignoring sectional density, external ballistics and bc, and bullet design. People tend to get on the band wagon of go big or go home and then push down the path of what if scenarios. I look at this way, if you are playing the what if scenario you should probably get closer and eliminate the what if this and what if that. I've seen a pile of elk taken with a large range of calibers and cartridges (guiding hunts). In every single instance a well placed shot resulted in a "ethical" kill. BTW- ethics arguments is not something I subscribe too. Everyone definition is different and it's a complete sh!t show trying to pin people down on it. Perfect example is the dude trying to pull off 1200 yard shots because he has a cannon of a rifle but literally lacks the skill to make that shot consistently and with 90% or better first round probability. Ask that guy about his ability and you'll be told how [email protected] he is, always. In the end, there are people I shoot with I'd never question their choices and there are others, their whole life is a question.
 

rustyshackleford

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I’ll stir the pot. Here’s a pic of what a 105gr Berger hybrid going 2885fps from a 243 Winchester does to an elk at 364 yards. I’m w/ @coldboremiracle. Shot placement is key. That’s the offside. Seems pretty toast to me.
That’s ~1300 ft/lbs of energy that manifested into good terminal performance due to the 2300+ ft/sec retained velocity. If anything you’re reinforcing the point. I think 1500 ft/lbs and ~2k ft/sec are just good recommendations. In reality a little less energy assuming the velocity is met or exceeded, or a little less velocity assuming the energy is met or exceeded is still going to result in a dead elk or any other game animal for that matter.
 

19elkhunter51

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I have to agree with "Here we go again". Why not just sneak up on them with a big rock and bash them in the head? Good bet there have been bunches of elk killed with a .22 long rifle cartridge. Not my cup of tea. I also subscribe to the "best shot placement with the largest, fastest bullet you can shoot" theory. I started with a 30-06 and never thought I was under gunned. Bought a 300 WM at a stupid cheap price but don't like belted cartridges. Finally could afford a 300 Ultra Mag, then built a custom 338 Edge. I am an old guy and don't know how many elk seasons I will be hunting so I am probably finished buying anything else to hunt elk.
 

30378wbymag

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180's @ just over 3400 fps. FREAKIN laser and DRT on everything I've shot with this!!! Was out at the range this past Sunday, hitting 8" plate at 920 yds. That big weatherby is a beast!!! With that being said, ima gonna use my new 6.5 PRC this year, most likely with a 140 hunting bullet IF I can find any...
 

jshepherd61

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Elk season is coming - wonder what we think?
IMO and IME experience, there is a thresh hold for caliber and bullet size when I hunt elk. Many of my friends call me "magnum" because of this philosophy. When it comes to hunting, especially larger game, I run big heavy (195 and larger) bullets at at least 3000 fps mzl vel for elk. I subscribe to no less than 1000 lbs of energy to kill and in the field, things sometimes aren't as perfect as they are on the range or shooting steel - especially at longer ranges when the bullet has a 1 second or longer flight time. Animals move, take steps, turn and have round bones that sometimes deflect smaller bullets upon impact.

I wonder how every one else thinks about this? Yes, I know there have been elk killed with a .243 but is that really what you want to ethically kill an elk with?

SEND IT!
I agree to some extent! I usually use a 168gr ABLR out of my 7mm STW running 3,452 fps or a 156gr EOL at 3,242 fps or a 142gr ABLR at 3,450fps out of my 26 Nosler. Personally I’m not a fan of over damaging the meat so I have stayed away from the heavier pills. My last four elk were taken over 1k. However this year I have a new toy 300 PRC built for the Volkswagen size pills so will be using either the 210gr ABLR or the 212gr ELDX both at 3,052 fps. Worked out great both have the same 200 yd zero. First time with a heavy bullet. If I get too much damage I’ll move back down next year. The main reason for the switch is I also have a bear 🐻 tag for the same unit same season.
 

memtb

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I agree to some extent! I usually use a 168gr ABLR out of my 7mm STW running 3,452 fps or a 156gr EOL at 3,242 fps or a 142gr ABLR at 3,450fps out of my 26 Nosler. Personally I’m not a fan of over damaging the meat so I have stayed away from the heavier pills. My last four elk were taken over 1k. However this year I have a new toy 300 PRC built for the Volkswagen size pills so will be using either the 210gr ABLR or the 212gr ELDX both at 3,052 fps. Worked out great both have the same 200 yd zero. First time with a heavy bullet. If I get too much damage I’ll move back down next year. The main reason for the switch is I also have a bear 🐻 tag for the same unit same season.

Except for higher retained velocity and energy (assuming similar constructed bullets) at your quite long ranges, the heavier bullets should produce similar or less meat damage. Generally speaking (at least at close range) the higher velocities of the lighter bullet ruin more meat......not conversely! memtb
 

skipglo

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It absolutely staggers my mind at how often this question is asked! And even more mind boggling that the concept of HEAVY, NO..HEAVIER...MAYBE HEAVIEST...has garnered so much attention today...to kill game! There shouldn't be an Indigenous person or earliest settler to have ever survived...and albeit...None of us here today if this were true!
 

shootski

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Totally agree!

The airgun hunter using a .458 caliber DAQ LA shooting a 400+ grain Hunter Supply dead soft lead bullet (500+ FPE at 850 FPS) is able to take any large game in any of the 50 States; often with an exit wound or just inside the far side skin. 150 yards is mid range for a big bore airgun these days.

Now if all the states would get their acts together and realize the facts of modern PCPs.

shootski
 

rustyshackleford

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It absolutely staggers my mind at how often this question is asked! And even more mind boggling that the concept of HEAVY, NO..HEAVIER...MAYBE HEAVIEST...has garnered so much attention today...to kill game! There shouldn't be an Indigenous person or earliest settler to have ever survived...and albeit...None of us here today if this were true!
You say that but up until recently weren’t mild velocity cartridges with high SD bullets what would've been used? Once we got past 1/2 inch round balls, we went to 1/2 inch flat nose, and then when we got to “high power” rifles all the crazy feats of small bores were done with 220 gr 30 cals, 175 gr 7mm, or 160 gr 6.5mm. Right? With monos and bonded rounds the game has changed but I don’t find it a stretch to think heavy for caliber is bad when it comes to cup and core.
 
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