Is this a good 800 yard deer Rifle?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by dakor, May 24, 2005.

  1. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    I am wondering what you guys think of this rifle /bullet combo. I have a 6mm-284 shooting 105 A-Max bullets at 3361FPS with good accuracy. This load will shoot about 3/4 of an inch at 300 yards. Do you think this combo has enough juice to take Deer sized game out to 800 yards?
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Dakor,

    Will you be able to hit a deer at 800 yards? Should not be a problem with an accurate drop system.

    Will you have the power to kill a deer at 800 yards? certainly

    Will you be marginal in some areas and shot angles? yes

    The biggest question for me would be how large are the deer you are hunting? I would feel totally confident taking a shot at 800 yards with your set up on Texas whitetails which don't go much over 120 lbs. As well, I would also feel confident taking such a shot on any pronghorn that walked.

    But...

    Up here in Montana and the rest of the northern states and Canada, the whitetail are a different story all together. A mature buck weighing over 200 lbs is common. I have shot several that topped 300 lbs so I would say that for northern whitetail and Mule deer that have the potential to weight +300 lbs and have much heavier bone structure then the lighter southern whitetails, this type of shot with this round may not be the best idea. With a chest shot it would certainly work but there are much better rounds out there that have no question of their efficency at long range.

    Now to change the equation a bit. If you loaded up some of Richard Graves 110 gr Bonded Core ULD FBHP bullets and got this same level of accuracy or even 1/2 moa grouping, then I would say go for it as this bullet is designed for just such work.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  3. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    Kirby I live in ND so I shoot Whitetails that average about 150 to 200 lbs. I would only use this combo for broadside shots. I have taken deer with the 95 Ballistic Tip out to 500 yards and it worked very well. I do not think I could shoot the 110gr because I have a 9 twist. I have never shot anything with the 105 A-max other then paper but from what I hear it works like a Ballistic Tip on deer. Most of my shots would be in that 500 to 700 range but sometimes a longer shot might happen. I would like to try take some yotes with this load out to 1000 I know I should have enough to kill them. I do have bigger rifles so I could carry one of them if I know my shots would be real long but you just never know what is going to happen. Have you used the 105 A-max on deer sized game? I know you have shot it in your 6-284. I guess I am partial to this rifle because I probably shoot it the best out of any rifle I have and it feels like a part of me when I shoulder it. I am sure you have one of those in your collection to. But I want to be realistic about its ability and effective killing power at long range.
     
  4. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Dakor,

    From my testing results, the 95 gr Ballistic Tip will far outpenetrate the 105 gr A-Max on deer size game. Only problem it does not hold a candle to it ballistically so its kind of a catch 22.

    For broadside chest shots you will probably have great results.

    The 110 gr Wildcat is a FB bullet so youmay well be able to shot this bullet in your 1-9 twist at full speeds. Remember its only 5 grains heavier but as a flat base it is no longer.

    Here is a pic comparing the two.

    [​IMG]

    If you would like, drop me your address and I will ship you 10 or so of them to try and see how they shoot in your rifle.

    Ballistically they shoot very similiarly to the 105 A-Max and perform much better on larger game at any range.

    Let me know.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  5. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    Email sent, Thanks Kirby!!!
     
  6. brian b

    brian b Well-Known Member

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    Dakor and Fiftydriver,
    Dont want to ruffle any feather's but the 105gr A-Max should not SHOULD NOT be used on any thing other than paper targets. Me along with Goodgrouper and 7mmrhb have witnessed vapor from my 6-284 at 3200fps with this thin skin whimp. use a real bullet for this chambering 107gr MK
    B
     
  7. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    Brian I just started shooting this bullet a month ago so I really do not have a lot of experiance with it. But that is funny you mention that because last week I was sighting my rifle in and I was just shooting my last three shot group and I had 2 inside each other and the last shot seemed like it did not hit the paper unless it went in between the two but I doubt it. I thought maybe I pulled the shot because Kirby is shooting them 150fps faster than me and I have never seen him post anything about dusting them. Maybe I did dust that one? What twist do you have ? I have a 9 and the 107 Sierra calls for and 8. So I figured it would not work in my rifle.
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Dakor,

    My rifle tops out in the 3250 fps range with the 105 gr A-Max and Bergers. I am shooting the 107 gr Sierra MK to get the 3500 fps in my 6-284. I agree the thicker jacket will allow higher top end velocites.

    My barrel is a 30" 3 groove 1-8 Lilja and from talking with others, it seems the 3 groove barrels are a bit harder on thin jacketed match bullets then say a 6 goove as they are routinely getting higher velocity with great accuracy compared to the 3 groove barrels I have used on barrels.

    With the 107 gr Mk though I have not had a problem even up to 3600 fps which is a very hot load so I dropped them down to 3500 fps.

    I have yet to dust a 105 gr A-Max but I personally feel the high velocity combined with the 3 groove barrels results in a jacket/core integrity issue that causes the bullets to loose stability and thus not make it to the point you are shooting at.

    Just wanted to set the record straight that I am not driving the 105 gr A-Max to 3500 fps, I am using the Sierra 107 MK and when I shoot those up I will be using the 110 gr Wildcat ULD RBBT or possibly the 115 gr ULD RBBT.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Kirby for the confusion. So how does that 107 Sierra work on deer sized game?
     
  10. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Dakor,

    It performs better on larger game such as yotes, pronghorn and small deer better then it does on lighter game, chucks and P. dogs.

    It does not expand alot but if you put the bullet in the rifle place it will outperform the A-Max in my opinion on larger game.

    The A-Max will have a distinct advantage over the SMK on light game where quick expansion is needed.

    Those Wildcats are in the mail, let me know how they perform in your rifle.

    Richard makes a 120 gr ULD RBBT in 6mm that has really had me looking hard at designing a 6mm Allen Mag but need to get the 7mm and 338 finished first!! To many toys, not enough money or TIME!!!

    Later,

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  11. dakor

    dakor Well-Known Member

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    I hear you on the toy thing Kirby. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Thanks again I will let you know how it shoots.
     
  12. brian b

    brian b Well-Known Member

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    Dakor,
    Me and Fiftydriver have talked about this a few times ,there is something about a 6mm 3 groove 1-8" twist barrel that blows up bullets, my first experience was with Bergers 105gr VLD out of my 6mm-284 ,they worked fine until I crossed the 3300fps threshold, then 1 out of 5 would blowup somewhere between the barrel and the target. I then switched to Sierra 107gr MK's and I can shoot them as fast as I want and they shoot better that the berger's.
    Then my nephew (my shooting and hunting companion goodgrouper)suggested that I try 105grA-Max, I backed off my load 2gr and we went to test them the following weekend and they BLEW-UP going through the chronograph. (a.k.a. copperwash with a pretty plastic tip) the 107gr MK,s are not the best big game bullet but they do- not vaporize on impact or before (impact) 105 a-maxs and bergers are target bullets and dont fare very well going at a distance. unless condition's are perfect.
    B
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Brian B,

    Again I agree with your comments. We are seeing the exact same thing with the 3 groove barrels.

    That said, I do feel that the 105 gr A-Max used in a rounds from the 6mm BR up to the 243 make a pretty decent pronghorn-light deer bullet when used in the 2800 to 3100 fps range.

    Has no baring on this topic but I do think they have their uses when used in the proper velocity range as always.

    I just wish some of the major bullet makers would catch up with the times and build some quality, high B.C. bullets in .224 and 6mm that would handle the 3600 to 3800 fps velocities that are possible with todays powders and wildcat designs. Gets a little frustrating.

    Course, thats why Richard Graves is my bullet supplier, no problems there, just tell him what crazy idea I have in mind and the bullets show up. They generally work great the first time but if they need tweaking he does that on the second batch.

    Still, just to make a point, I think the A-Max is a great bullet, in fact I think its the best Hornady bullet out there. It just has a pretty low velocity window where it should be used as with most Match bullets.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)