Is shooting 1/2 moa groups at 1000yds posable for under $2000!
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Rustystud
Well-Known Member
John Skowron of Raleigh, NC shot two back to back clean 1000 yards scores at Butner, NC at the North State Shooting Clubs Glass Eye Challenges December 2008. I would have to check and see but I am confident these were 20 shot groups in a ten inch ten ring. The X ring I believe is 5 inch. He is shooting a Savage model 10, Rifle Basix Sav-2 trigger, chambered in 6mmBRX, in a 31", 1:8, 5C, Broughton barrel, Ken Farrell rings and bases, Leupold 8.5 X 25 scope, and a Stockade Elk thumbhole stock. He is a sling shooter. This is about as close to $2,000.00 as it gets.
I know because I built his rifle.
Rustystud
I know because I built his rifle.
Rustystud
Now I realize you're as sensitive regarding your shooting ability and your rifles as you are concerning your political preferences. You should take your rifles out on the competitive circle and see how they stack up. Remember - you're the one that claimed 'stupid' first.
4xforfun
Well-Known Member
He did it twice.....can he do it every time out?
I say no way.
The origonal post asks about "consistantly" shooting 1/2 MOA.
Rustystud
Well-Known Member
What is amazing is he did it at all. We are talking about 20 shot groups not 3 or 5 shot groups. Get your head back where the sun shines, man.
Savage model 10 action = $239.00
Broughton barrel = $300.00
Stockade stock = $350.00
Ken Farrell rings and bases = $125.00
Leupold 8.5 X 25 scope = $750.00
Rifle Basix ZSav-2 trigger = $150.00
====================
$1,914.00
Rustystud
Savage model 10 action = $239.00
Broughton barrel = $300.00
Stockade stock = $350.00
Ken Farrell rings and bases = $125.00
Leupold 8.5 X 25 scope = $750.00
Rifle Basix ZSav-2 trigger = $150.00
====================
$1,914.00
Rustystud
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Rusty,
If I am reading your numbers correctly, you
-accurized the receiver
-Threaded, chambered and crowned the barrel
-finished the barrel
-installed the trigger
-tuned and adjusted the trigger
-bedded the stock
For a total of...........$86????
I am certainly not saying that combo would not shoot extremely well, I am sure it did but there should be some assembly costs to building that rifle aren't there?? Or did you do it probono? Basically you listed $2000 worth of rifle componants, what about the charge to take it from a pile of parts to a functioning rifle?
I do not know if your a professional smith or just do it part time so that would explain alot once we knew that. Not flaming you in any way, just curious if you did the assembly on your dime?
If I am reading your numbers correctly, you
-accurized the receiver
-Threaded, chambered and crowned the barrel
-finished the barrel
-installed the trigger
-tuned and adjusted the trigger
-bedded the stock
For a total of...........$86????
I am certainly not saying that combo would not shoot extremely well, I am sure it did but there should be some assembly costs to building that rifle aren't there?? Or did you do it probono? Basically you listed $2000 worth of rifle componants, what about the charge to take it from a pile of parts to a functioning rifle?
I do not know if your a professional smith or just do it part time so that would explain alot once we knew that. Not flaming you in any way, just curious if you did the assembly on your dime?
linksmechanic
Well-Known Member
I thought you could buy the barrels pre-chambered? Essentially you throw that barrel on set the headspace tighten the barrel nut and your good to go. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that was the big benefit of the barrel nut on the savage. I would think a person with mechanical skills could screw the barrel on, set headspace and install the stock in about an hour. I'm not sure what the rate per hour is for a smith but I'll just go with $100.00. So theres about a $100.00 in labor to build a savage if your not truing the action.
If Rusty will build me a competition rifle for $100 in labor that will shoot two perfect scores in a row, then put me on the waiting list please. Are you serious? $100.00 for labor to assemble a competition rifle? Let alone a winner? My gunsmith would charge that much or more just to thoroughly clean one of my long guns.
Costs me more than that just to walk into the shop and handle some of the rifles! I hardly ever get out of there for less than $100.
Costs me more than that just to walk into the shop and handle some of the rifles! I hardly ever get out of there for less than $100.
Rustystud
Well-Known Member
Kirby:
I am a licensed and insured gunsmith, and no I don't give away my services. The rules of this site prohibit my advertising my services without being a sponsor. Therefore I did not post my work on Johns' rifle. The header on this post was "can a 1/2 moa rifle be made for less than $2000.00". I have a Savage that I built for myself and the parts cost me $2019.00, and if I could shoot a little better and the wind co-operate it would be a 1/2 moa rifle. John is a good customer and High Master shooter he has 4 Savage rifles, 3 he shoots long range and one he hunts with. None of his long range barrels are pre fits. He shoots Tim Norths', Broughton barrels who is a site sponsor. All his actions have been worked on. John Skowron and Jeff Saunders, of Virginia who also shoots a Savage has shot a clean 200 with 14 Xs, F-Class Open score at 600 yards. It does my heart a lot of good to see a shooter with a working class mans rifle win a match with a line full of $4,000.00 rifles. I was just trying to respond to the thread.
Nat Lambeth
I am a licensed and insured gunsmith, and no I don't give away my services. The rules of this site prohibit my advertising my services without being a sponsor. Therefore I did not post my work on Johns' rifle. The header on this post was "can a 1/2 moa rifle be made for less than $2000.00". I have a Savage that I built for myself and the parts cost me $2019.00, and if I could shoot a little better and the wind co-operate it would be a 1/2 moa rifle. John is a good customer and High Master shooter he has 4 Savage rifles, 3 he shoots long range and one he hunts with. None of his long range barrels are pre fits. He shoots Tim Norths', Broughton barrels who is a site sponsor. All his actions have been worked on. John Skowron and Jeff Saunders, of Virginia who also shoots a Savage has shot a clean 200 with 14 Xs, F-Class Open score at 600 yards. It does my heart a lot of good to see a shooter with a working class mans rifle win a match with a line full of $4,000.00 rifles. I was just trying to respond to the thread.
Nat Lambeth
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Links,
There are some barrel makers that do this, that is true.
Broughton is not one of them, neither will you find any other top end barrel maker offering prefit barrels for the Savage. By top end I mean, Lilja, Broughton, Rock, Krieger, Hart, Bartlein.
Plus, I have worked on many Savage receivers and have yet to find one that was what I would call BR square out of the box. Espeically the standard Model 10. The target receivers may be a different story.
If the rifle was slapped into a stock, it was not done properly. Should be bedded to the stock and better yet pillar bedded.
There are some barrel makers that do this, that is true.
Broughton is not one of them, neither will you find any other top end barrel maker offering prefit barrels for the Savage. By top end I mean, Lilja, Broughton, Rock, Krieger, Hart, Bartlein.
Plus, I have worked on many Savage receivers and have yet to find one that was what I would call BR square out of the box. Espeically the standard Model 10. The target receivers may be a different story.
If the rifle was slapped into a stock, it was not done properly. Should be bedded to the stock and better yet pillar bedded.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Rusty,
So just to be clear, he handed you well over $2000 for his rifle?
The new Savage target/comp rifles in 6.5-284 and 6mm Norma BR are listed at around $1100 retail price. Add a VX-III and a set of good rings and a rail base and you would be right at $2000 for the complete rifle.
Would this be a 1000 yard 1/2 moa rifle, possibly but just as likely it would not.
Just want to make the point that there were extra costs involved in the rifle you are posting about so that some new shooter out there does not read your post and spends the only $2000 he has and is left with a pile of parts sitting there but no assembled rifle.
That is my only point, not questioning your componants, your ability to make a rifle, only that its not practical to expect a custom rifle for under $2000 even using the parts you list.
I to have used alot of Savage receivers and will be honest, for a factory receiver, I really like them, right there with a Rem 700 to be honest. The bedding is a bit less then ideal and I always get rid of the barrel lock nut and fit the barrel just like a Rem 700 but they certainly do shoot well. Best three shot group at 500 yards I have personally fired was with one of my 270 AMs based on a Savage M111 which I converted to single shot. The group was roughly 0.550" ctc at 500 yards!!!
They certainly do shoot and offer a good option for a lower priced project but still do not see where its realistic to say you can get one including scope for less then $2000. If scope was not included, I would be right there with ya.
Good Shooting
So just to be clear, he handed you well over $2000 for his rifle?
The new Savage target/comp rifles in 6.5-284 and 6mm Norma BR are listed at around $1100 retail price. Add a VX-III and a set of good rings and a rail base and you would be right at $2000 for the complete rifle.
Would this be a 1000 yard 1/2 moa rifle, possibly but just as likely it would not.
Just want to make the point that there were extra costs involved in the rifle you are posting about so that some new shooter out there does not read your post and spends the only $2000 he has and is left with a pile of parts sitting there but no assembled rifle.
That is my only point, not questioning your componants, your ability to make a rifle, only that its not practical to expect a custom rifle for under $2000 even using the parts you list.
I to have used alot of Savage receivers and will be honest, for a factory receiver, I really like them, right there with a Rem 700 to be honest. The bedding is a bit less then ideal and I always get rid of the barrel lock nut and fit the barrel just like a Rem 700 but they certainly do shoot well. Best three shot group at 500 yards I have personally fired was with one of my 270 AMs based on a Savage M111 which I converted to single shot. The group was roughly 0.550" ctc at 500 yards!!!
They certainly do shoot and offer a good option for a lower priced project but still do not see where its realistic to say you can get one including scope for less then $2000. If scope was not included, I would be right there with ya.
Good Shooting
I have seen people come out to a match and try to shoot with the BR rigs with rifles and stories like the one above-----have yet to see anyone who was competitive but that does not mean it cannot be done. Usually these guys realize that it is tougher than they thought and understand that there is a lot that goes into competitive long range shooting and go home more educated than when they arrived.
Well I know it's a lot harder to shoot a 5-shot group than a 3-shot group. I own two Tikka T3s and they shoot a pretty nice 3-shot group also. But after those skinny barrels start to warm up, the group size opens also. I don't even try to shoot more than 3-shot groups with them because it's a waste of barrel life and my time. And three shots is more than enough for almost any hunting situation. Shooting 10 or 20 shot groups? Now that would be THE definition of consistent accuracy and performance! I'd guess a competitor's mind and nerves become the greatest enemy for many.
I think just watching match competition would be a real wake-up call for most hunters/shooters than have never observed one before - which includes me. I'd like to watch one some day. Not much of that where I live.
I think just watching match competition would be a real wake-up call for most hunters/shooters than have never observed one before - which includes me. I'd like to watch one some day. Not much of that where I live.
Rustystud
Well-Known Member
I have had my eyes opened up after 50 plus years of shooting and hunting.
Thought I was a pretty good shot. I shot few shots at big game over 300 yards. I started shooting F-Class and accross the course. Shooting 600-1000 yards presented many new challenges IE: reading the wind being just one.
Shooting Cross the Course Standing at 200 yards with irons at a 2 inch 10 ring is quite intimidating to most. It separates the men from the boys.
I have truly gain respect for those who really can shoot long range. There is alot of BS out there. The only way to be consistent at long range shooting is to shoot and shoot some more. Having good equipment, knowing your equipment, reading distance and the wind. I have shot prarrie dogs and ground hogs at 900- 1500 yards but it required walking the shots in. Few hunting shots made over 500 yards are made first shot. Those who make them are either really good or really lucky.
Rustystud
Thought I was a pretty good shot. I shot few shots at big game over 300 yards. I started shooting F-Class and accross the course. Shooting 600-1000 yards presented many new challenges IE: reading the wind being just one.
Shooting Cross the Course Standing at 200 yards with irons at a 2 inch 10 ring is quite intimidating to most. It separates the men from the boys.
I have truly gain respect for those who really can shoot long range. There is alot of BS out there. The only way to be consistent at long range shooting is to shoot and shoot some more. Having good equipment, knowing your equipment, reading distance and the wind. I have shot prarrie dogs and ground hogs at 900- 1500 yards but it required walking the shots in. Few hunting shots made over 500 yards are made first shot. Those who make them are either really good or really lucky.
Rustystud
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