Is my Bergara Bergarbage?

[zb338]

I had a .264 Winchester rifle in a Sako Finbear. Nice rifle with a 26 inch bbl.
I tried all sorts of powder and loads, it shot poorly. Tried some 120 grain
bullets and it shot minute of angle groups.
Zeke

 

[StraightShooter77]

Super frustrated. Review of this rifle and reading past experiences make it look fine, but I'm wondering if my barrel is defective? I did a proper break in procedure.

Bergara B14 HMR in 300WinMag. Gunwerks brass that's now on it's second firing. Berger 215s with H1000 powder and CCI 250s.

I try to load to perfection. My shoulder bumping, trimming, and seating is all within .001.


I fire formed my first 100 pieces and gathered data working up a ladder.The groups were all pretty terrible never even reaching 1 MOA but I figured was because of new brass. Now that I have my first round of fire formed brass I loaded as perfect as possible I'm still shooting god awful groups. It doesn't matter if I lock it up in a sled, shoot from a bench, or prone with a bipod.

My Pro Chrono 2 is showing an ES of nearly 200fps.


What in the world is going on? This has been incredibly expensive to shoot such garbage and still nowhere near a good load. Factory ammo wasn't match grade but still shot no better than 1.5MOA.

Advice?

How many shots have you put through this barrel in total?

Shoot Straight!

StraightShooter77

 

[CVCOBRA1]

Before any of you new comers start posting, please go back and read the entire thread. Thank you

 

[anwahs]

Having trouble even getting an RMA. Left on hold for ever, website issues...I don't think Bergara is for me.


On the plus side, yay I get to gun shop. Any recommendations on something similar in 300WinMag with a sub MOA guarantee that actually shoots it? Needs to be capable of accepting a thread on Dead Air muzzle brake.

The Remington Model 700 Stainless Threaded Gen 2 has a good reputation for being a shooter.

 

[blvette75]

Super frustrated. Review of this rifle and reading past experiences make it look fine, but I'm wondering if my barrel is defective? I did a proper break in procedure.

Bergara B14 HMR in 300WinMag. Gunwerks brass that's now on it's second firing. Berger 215s with H1000 powder and CCI 250s.

I try to load to perfection. My shoulder bumping, trimming, and seating is all within .001.


I fire formed my first 100 pieces and gathered data working up a ladder.The groups were all pretty terrible never even reaching 1 MOA but I figured was because of new brass. Now that I have my first round of fire formed brass I loaded as perfect as possible I'm still shooting god awful groups. It doesn't matter if I lock it up in a sled, shoot from a bench, or prone with a bipod.

My Pro Chrono 2 is showing an ES of nearly 200fps.


What in the world is going on? This has been incredibly expensive to shoot such garbage and still nowhere near a good load. Factory ammo wasn't match grade but still shot no better than 1.5MOA.

Advice?

Have you looked at your barrel with a Bore scope? I bought a bore-scope from Amazon for about $50.00, I have used it on multiple rifles included my Bergara HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor, although my Bergara is shooting very good groups sometimes through the same hole at 100 yards. But I see with the bore-scope in the Bergara the beginning of copper fouling in my barrel(I also see some rough rifling in the Bergara barrel that is probably why there is so much more copper in the barrel), I have not shot the rifle that much after the break-in, besides comparing groups side by side versus my AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor maybe 150 rounds total. I was surprised at the amount of copper in the barrel compared to my AR10(very little copper) which has had, about 4 times the amount of rounds through it. Just something to consider. A lot of good feedback on copper fouling in barrels on this website which I am using on my rifles now.

I typically do not shoot a 215 grain through my 300 win mag rifles with a 1:10 twist but heaviest I shoot is 200 grain or lower. One of my 300 win mags a Savage 110 shoots a 180 grain bullet the best. The other 300 win mag is a BAR seems to like 200 grain Nosler custom ammo the best group was 3/8".Most groups with other factory ammo is about 3/4"-11/2" the BAR likes Remington ammunition not sure why. "(trying to work up a load to duplicate the performance of the Nosler ammo), the other is a savage 110 both are 1:10 twist barrels. Just me, but I am not a expert re-loader by any means tried heavier bullets 215 and 220 grain(both would not feed right in my BAR had to do single shot), but my groups opened up on both rifles 1 1/2 to 3 inch groups I decided not to waste anymore components.

 

[WiscGunner]

Although there is conflicting posts regarding this rifle from the OP, this isn't a reason to disparage the OP or for the OP to get super defensive about being called out on it. The knowledge base here is truly fantastic but only as useful as the info provided. Since the adage regarding computers applies to group discussions too, as the saying goes...Garbage in, Garbage out.

It is simply impossible to find a solution to such a complex problem with so many variables without enough reliable data.

1) Assuming a large ES from an optical chronograph from a brand new reloader as accurate is a giant assumption. OP has not answered the numerous posts about lighting or distance greater than 30' so we as a group have no idea if he is even using the chrono correctly. "Tested with a 9mm" is not reliable data. A 9mm powder charge will not send unburnt powder as far as a 300wm will so a 9mm will not show errors at the same distance a 300wm will either.

2) Problems with scope/mounting will certainly cause giant groups. Loose reticle, over extended turret, loose rail, lose screws, rings mounted too close to turret pinching erector. Goofy assumptions on what is needed for 1mile shots such as excessive rail angles, shims, coke cans, hot glue have all been seen (not necessarily in this particular situation). Relying or even paying a store employee to mount a scope is an obnoxious waste of money that shows the confidence level of OP with mechanical things as well as a lack of knowledge.A stranger cannot mount a scope properly without the shouters body present to position it properly for eye relief and comfortable shooting positi

3) Load development can be a a giant contributor. In previous posts in other threads, the OP stated he measured BTO in this rifle/load and set back from there. However, I have yet to see if the OP did more than assume brass length in a book was to his rifles chamber specs. It is imperative to check brass (no bullet needed) fits the chamber. If it is the slightest bit too long and the OP doesn't catch the slightmy harder bolt close with empty brass then he can be crimping the neck on the bullet causing high pressure and erratic velocity. The OP should most definitely check this when he restarts load development on any future rifles. Assumptions do not make for reliable reloading. Also using a beam scale is not a foolproof method if attention to detail of knowledge of scales is not involved.

3) Pressure signs. The OP hasn't provided pictures of brass to show blackened necks orflattened primers or other tell tale signs that will be very helpful in diagnosing the issue.

4) H1000 is extremely temp stable so time in chamber is clearly not the issue causing 200fps spread. However, the 200fps shouldn't be discounted in load development nor should the rifle be blamed for this with out proper info regardi g the use and setup of the chrono. Clearly a Magnetspeed or Lab Radar are better options and would eliminate this poor info is the OP has access to someone who has one and knows how to use it as errors in those systems also occur when not used properly.

5) Addition of muzzle break. Was this with factory threaded muzzle, gunsmith threaded with die or gunsmith threaded with a lathe without removing the barrel? We have no idea if the rifle was worked on by a Gunsmith or by a person at a gunstore who simply operates in that role. Clearly "gunsmithing" service like mounting a scope do not justify the title.

6) Parallax. As the OP is new to the technical side of reloading and unfamiliar with other common techniques such as bedding, improper parallax is not out of the question. As the OP is clearly a green shooter than many here, he may not be aware that If the scope is randomly mounted and the eye relief is not correct, we will reset his eye into the scope after each shot effectively aiming at a different spot on the target every time. Since there is so little information regarding the possible causes of the supposed 200fps spread shown by a possibly maybe accurate chronograph, it cannot be definitively ruled in as the cause if the large groups at this point.


Hopefully, the OP continues to use this rifle situation as a learning experience when he receives the rifle back from Bergara. Most of these questions and details will still need to be addressed regardless of what rifle the OP chooses to setup and reload for in the future. Good luck on your learning adventure.

 

[ajkellerusmc]

Try your ammo in a buddies 300 win mag if your loads are similar and it can be done safely. That will tell you right away wether it's an ammo issue or a gun issue.

Or try a few good factory loads to test the platform.

 

[Huntz]

My Bergara Ridge shot like that until I put it in a HS Precision stock and skim bedded it.I like the Bergara`s action,but am not thrilled with their barrels.I had several on TC Encores and they were all sub standard to TC made barrels.For the money you spent,you should not have to play games with a rifle for it to shoot proper.I would send it back or ask for my money back.There are plenty rifles in that price range that shoot good.

 

[CVCOBRA1]

Buying a Bergara is like buying a lottery ticket.......and they should know that it is slowing their sales. As long as consumers don't care they won't either. This day there are too many shootists out there that simply think they can solve the problem trying to out think it and throw more money at it. As long as Bergara knows this they won't care.

 

[coop2564]

I never use reloads for breakin and first shooting. Opens all kinds of warranty problems if the gun does have a issue. Prove that the gun is a shooter without defect before using reloads. Then you have a base line to improve on. My HMR is pretty short on throat in 6.5 CM it shoot most factory rounds as good as any of my reloads. I couoldnt be happier with mine. Dont give up

 

[SMK1000plus]

101stCurrahee,
You could buy a new rifle in one of a couple of brands of CHEAP but, accurate rifles in 300 Win Mag, that are guaranteed MOA or better, that actually shoot sub-MOA, for under $550. I have several that shoot very nice groups with both factory 180gr Barnes TTSX loads and my Berger 215gr Hybrid loads. The BNIB T/C Compass 300 Win Mag rifles my buddy and I got a steal on (under $230 each, including shipping & FFL transfers) both shoot sub-MOA even in their flimsy tupperware stocks. I'm going to put mine in a Boyds Pro Varmint Laminate sometime this year. (I'd be glad to loan you this one. Its wearing a relatively inexpensive Leupold Freedom 4-12x40mm capped turrets scope, not suitable for your 500 meter range requirement but, has an EGW 20 MOA Picatinny rail stress free epoxyed and then torqued to spec, mount installed, that would work nicely for your Nightforce NX8 scope.)

The other inexpensive sub-MOA rifle I would recommend is the Ruger American Go Wild in 300 Win Mag. I now have 11 of the Ruger American Centerfire rifles, in various chamberings from 223 Rem up to 300 Win Mag. (Yes, I have a LOT of rifles!). Most of them are the Predator variant. ALL of my Ruger American Centerfire rifles shoot extremely well. The 300 Win Mag Go Wild version has a SLIGHTLY heavier barrel, camo tupperware stock, radial muzzle brake and burnt bronze cerakote finish. It runs BNIB for under $550 including S&H, if you shop around for it. It is also available for under $600 for a stainless version with the black tupperware stock and plain SS finish. I haven't fired one of these stainless versions, or even seen one at the range, so no idea on how well they really perform. Still, they have Ruger's MOA or better warranty.

Another route you could go is a nicer rifle, like a Sako, but that means some considerable cash, even for a decent used one. I've also had great luck (and some not so great) with older used Remington 700s, but would HIGHLY recommend a decent aftermarket trigger for it! Or buy a new or used Winchester M70 with the CRF (pre'64 style) action. I've had excellent accuracy from many of these, except for two 375 H&H Mags.

Before you guys go nuts with the 375s lack of accuracy, know that I have a Winchester M70 Safari in 416 Rem Mag that cloverleafs 3 round groups with Barnes 400gr TSX at 2,300 fps at 100 yards! I have shot as many as 50 rounds at a single sitting at the bench with that rifle/load combo. I also have a Remington 798 Laminate, in 375 H&H that shoots 1-1/2 MOA with my Barnes 300gr TSX load. So yes, I can shoot the heavy mags quite nicely, thank you. Those two M70 375s just haven't performed well yet, and never. I may have to rebarrel them.

101stCurrahee,
PM me if you're interested in borrowing the T/C.

Kevin

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

Laffin, nobody is gonna read back thru the whole thread because everyone has to toss in their "expert" solution.

The OP did a standard test per my suggestion. Groups still sucked. He is sending it back.

Can we move on ?

 

[101stCurrahee]

So a swat sniper friend is going to shoot some groups with it in the next few days, using Bergaras recommended ammunition. If it doesn't hit the sub MOA guarantee it's going back, simple as that.

For what it's worth, having shot with me he immediately said I know to shoot and it has to be the rifle.


I'm going to try and locate a bore camera today and see if there's anything obvious. I probably wont be back until I get some actual info to go on. Thanks for the replies and help. Sorry if anything I posted sounded contradictory. It's hard to keep track of any patterns with this since the only pattern I've seen is there is absolutely no pattern. Which sounds on par for what the barrel mfg suggested with leaking gas around the bullet somewhere.

Laffin, nobody is gonna read back thru the whole thread because everyone has to toss in their "expert" solution.

The OP did a standard test per my suggestion. Groups still sucked. He is sending it back.

Can we move on ?

Please, lets. In fact mods feel free to close this down. If anything crazy gets discovered I'll try to come back and post what it was.

 

[YHUNTER]

Super frustrated. Review of this rifle and reading past experiences make it look fine, but I'm wondering if my barrel is defective? I did a proper break in procedure.

Bergara B14 HMR in 300WinMag. Gunwerks brass that's now on it's second firing. Berger 215s with H1000 powder and CCI 250s.

I try to load to perfection. My shoulder bumping, trimming, and seating is all within .001.


I fire formed my first 100 pieces and gathered data working up a ladder.The groups were all pretty terrible never even reaching 1 MOA but I figured was because of new brass. Now that I have my first round of fire formed brass I loaded as perfect as possible I'm still shooting god awful groups. It doesn't matter if I lock it up in a sled, shoot from a bench, or prone with a bipod.

My Pro Chrono 2 is showing an ES of nearly 200fps.


What in the world is going on? This has been incredibly expensive to shoot such garbage and still nowhere near a good load. Factory ammo wasn't match grade but still shot no better than 1.5MOA.

Advice?

I have the same rifle but in 6.5 creedmoor. It shot tiny groups with factory ammo or handloads right out of the box with no break in procedure.