Intersting find in my elk..

[Mr. Magoo]

Bro and I had a really nice round of luck this year and we managed to nail a couple big bodied bulls on our ranch. It was nice to be able to use my tractor to hang it while skinning and breaking it down.

While separating the left shoulder from the body I found what was left of a 6.5mm bullet embedded in the rib cage just under the shoulder blade on the near side ..I.E. it only penetrated about 2" into the animal. The bullet weighed 75 grains and there were no other bullet fragments in the area.



There was no entry wound left in either the hide or shoulder meat, so this was obviously long enough ago that it had conpletely healed. No scar tissue, blood shot meat or any other sign of damage. Just a bullet sitting in perfect meat.

All the evidence points to this being a pass-through from another animal, since it was highly mushroomed with only 2" of penetration and no bullet fragments. Whatever brand of bullet it was, was very lightly constructed and hit with alot of velocity. I'm not used to seeing this much lead peeled off the core from what had to have been a pure lung shot.

Fyi I shoot a .270win and I'm of the opinion that its a bit too light for elk so I wouldn't shoot a 6.5 at elk unless that's all I had. Of course I've been hankering to get a new rifle so I'll use this a justification my that I need to step up in caliber

Couple questions:
1) What bullets are this lightly constructed?
I would not want this much frangibility for a few reasons. My thinking is that this bullet probably wouldnt hold up to any kind of bone hit, but I may be wrong. The other reason, (though we always understand this is always a risk) is over penetration leading to what happened to my elk.

2) do you prefer pass through or, bullet expending all of its energy in the animal for quickest stoppage of elk function?

Feel free to discuss bullet failures.

 

[26Reload]

How did you decide it was a .264 bullet?

I've found pieces of arrows and broadheads in elk I've taken..not a bullet..but I have found a good sized chunk of another bulls antler between the bases of a bull I caped...about 4" of antler.....
But...one particular blktail I got with an arrow was shot head to tail with .22 bullets....not a lot of good meat to eat..as he was pussed up allover....
148" 4x5

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Calipers. The base was not upset.
^^Nice deer there..

 

[iowacity]

If you suspect the bullet passed through another elk and stuck in the elk you recovered it from, then the bullet sounds like it exceeded performance expectations, unless the goal was to kill 2 elk with one shot. I wouldn't call that a bullet failure. I shoot bergers which completely come apart and usually don't exit. They kill quick, which is what I want.

That's a neat find.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

If you suspect the bullet passed through another elk and stuck in the elk you recovered it from, then the bullet sounds like it exceeded performance expectations, unless the goal was to kill 2 elk with one shot. I wouldn't call that a bullet failure. I shoot bergers which completely come apart and usually don't exit. They kill quick, which is what I want.

That's a neat find.

Yeah that's the unknown part, how well did it do its job in the first animal? I know it died, but how quickly?

This is what I'd like to discuss. I've seen lots of posts on performance of soft bullets on deer here, but not elk.
The classic thought for elk is if the bullet overexpands too early, sheds it weight, and the (small/light) base passes through without a large permanent wound channel and /or doesn't provide enough shock/ damage though the vitals then it will be less effective than one that keeps a larger mushroom diameter and more of its weight throughout its travel, and still penetrates to the far side because of that retained weight. The question about soft bullets is where the blow up happens.

My dad always hunted with an '06 and core lockts. Their performance impressed me enough to use them myself and I've been very happy with them at the shorter ranges I usually shoot, and .270 velocity.

Longer ranges for me are going to require a bullet change I believe. I hear lots of praise for the berger hh.

 

[svivian]

Lots of elk die with bullets of less weight and size than a 6.5mm. Sounds like a pass through from another elk that was shot.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

How did you decide it was a .264 bullet?

I've found pieces of arrows and broadheads in elk I've taken..not a bullet..but I have found a good sized chunk of another bulls antler between the bases of a bull I caped...about 4" of antler.....
But...one particular blktail I got with an arrow was shot head to tail with .22 bullets....not a lot of good meat to eat..as he was pussed up allover....
View attachment 409073148" 4x5

Oh man that's crazy. 22 huh.

Im surpise we dont find more damage from antlers.

My very first elk came walking up through the top of a canyon after a bunch of shooting in the canyoin below. Really nice 5x7. I nailed it solid through the heart but it kept going and i had to trail it for 300 yards. Came upon it and found it had 6 or 7 rounds through the guts, butt, neck, and leg. Those 6 guys that had shot it all to hell but not hit the vitals came up to me while my dad was showing me how to gut it and decided they wanted it more than me. Got a little western for a minute. I let them have it after telling them what I thought of them and their hunting skills.

 

[7.62 Gunner]

Bro and I had a really nice round of luck this year and we managed to nail a couple big bodied bulls on our ranch. It was nice to be able to use my tractor to hang it while skinning and breaking it down.

While separating the left shoulder from the body I found what was left of a 6.5mm bullet embedded in the rib cage just under the shoulder blade on the near side ..I.E. it only penetrated about 2" into the animal. The bullet weighed 75 grains and there were no other bullet fragments in the area.



There was no entry wound left in either the hide or shoulder meat, so this was obviously long enough ago that it had conpletely healed. No scar tissue, blood shot meat or any other sign of damage. Just a bullet sitting in perfect meat.

All the evidence points to this being a pass-through from another animal, since it was highly mushroomed with only 2" of penetration and no bullet fragments. Whatever brand of bullet it was, was very lightly constructed and hit with alot of velocity. I'm not used to seeing this much lead peeled off the core from what had to have been a pure lung shot.

Fyi I shoot a .270win and I'm of the opinion that its a bit too light for elk so I wouldn't shoot a 6.5 at elk unless that's all I had. Of course I've been hankering to get a new rifle so I'll use this a justification my that I need to step up in caliber

Couple questions:
1) What bullets are this lightly constructed?
I would not want this much frangibility for a few reasons. My thinking is that this bullet probably wouldnt hold up to any kind of bone hit, but I may be wrong. The other reason, (though we always understand this is always a risk) is over penetration leading to what happened to my elk.

2) do you prefer pass through or, bullet expending all of its energy in the animal for quickest stoppage of elk function?

Feel free to discuss bullet failures.View attachment 409062View attachment 409063

I seriously doubt it was a pass through, I've personally helped a friend track down a 6x6 that he hit in the shoulder with a 6.5 creed at 275 yards. The recovered 143 eldx bullet penetrated 3" and looked the same, lucky for him he got a second round in the guts as the bull was running off and it clipped his liver.
I have a handful of friends who've found small caliber bullets healed into front and hind quarters

 

[isaaccarlson]

Pretty sure it was a pass through. A bullet has to go through some stuff to look like that. If it wasn't a pass through, then it was the crappiest bullet ever and going about as fast as an arrow. I have recovered bullets on the far hide that looked just like that.

As far as performance preference, two holes are better than one, but dynamite in the chest is worth more than two holes in a deer. They can't go far without vital organs...or a brain.

 

[CBH Australia]

Interesting,

My first thought was poachers. Poachers with Creedmoors. It's probably capable but shot placement matters

Well if you want to step up I'm keen on the .280a.i. but I thought every American hunter owned a .30 ought' 6

 

[crkckr]

This is just a wild rearended guess but it looks a lot like a Sierra GameKing bullet... but keep in mind it is just a guess and they usually penetrate more than a few inches, although they do tend to shed some weight along the way.
I'm in the "two holes are better than one" clan and won't hunt big game with anything other than Nosler Partitions. I also pass on shots that might hit another animal. I'm also of the opinion that anything less that a 300 Win Mag is not a 'real' elk cartridge. Just to be clear, this is just my opinion, nothing more!
When I started my quest for an elk cartridge I called and talked to probably a dozen or more guides, mainly in CO, WY & MT. Virtually every one said the same thing regarding caliber... .338 was the best and bigger was better! But only if you learned to cope with the recoil. Their pick for the worst cartridge surprised me... 7mm Mag! I thought the 7mm was absolute death on elk and had seriously considered it until my informal survey and I suspect it was mainly from guys who never learned to use the rifles properly, but every guide said they had seen more elk wounded with 7mm mags than any other cartridge. Next on the list was 270 Win, then 30-06/.308!
They all said they had found encapsulated bullets from the 3 main rounds listed and to a man, said that Core-lokt were the absolute worst elk bullets ever! Keep in mind this was back in the very early '70's.
Ok, I know a lot of elk have been taken with smaller calibers than 300 WM. But every time I hear this I wonder how many were hit and lost? As always, shot placement is king of the hill, no matter what caliber you use (with the possible exception of a 50 BMG!). And using a properly constructed bullet will go a long ways toward success with lighter calibers. And as long as hunters using the lighter calibers are ethical, passing up marginal shots and being good enough with their chosen tools to place a bullet where it will do it's work, I don't have a problem. But I will relate a story that happened on my first elk hunt, where the lead hunter (e.g. the guy who paid the most!) shot 3 elk they were not able to recover before he actually killed one dead enough they could find it. There was a big celebration at the dinner table that night with everyone congratulating him on his success. Being the youngest and probably least experienced elk hunter there, I didn't say much but when things started to wind down I did shake his hand and asked him how he felt about the 3 that got away and did he still think his 270 elk slayer was a good choice! Things got real quiet real fast as he struggled to figure out a suitable answer. I just smiled and turned before he said anything and went off to bed. I killed my elk the next day (no trophy to anyone but me) and later the next day, killed an elk with my 270 Win. (I was now hunting deer, although we never saw even one!l) that my father-in-law wounded with his 7mm mag! He actually kneecapped the thing at about 200 yards and never fired another shot. He was standing in a creek when I put a 150gr. Partition thru both his lungs, after which he fell on his non-functioning leg and literally drowned in the creek! I hit ribs going in and out, the entrance hole was small and the exit hole was maybe an inch and a half in diameter... big enough that he sucked in enough water thru it to fill his lungs with water and expire! It was not a good death. Turns out every time my hunting partner pulled his rifle out of the scabbard, he managed to spin the dial of the BDC on his fancy scope that he had no idea how use (I tried to show him but he wasn't really interested!). It was not the best hunting experience I've ever had. It also was not the last animal I would recover that he wounded. That second hunt was my last with him.
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[D.Camilleri]

My two cents having well over 50 elk kills under my belt, that bullet was not from a pass through on another elk! That bullet was likely to light of a bullet that hit the elk without enough velocity or energy to get the job done. I saw the same think happen from a friend with a 308 shooting 168's a couple of years ago. He hit a calf elk at close to 700 yards and it was already hit and down from being hit with a 338, but not dead. The bullet was found just under the hide when the elk was skinned out.

 

[KurtB]

Son's buddy just shot a mature 6x6 at something around 150 yards. Shot it through the shoulders up high and it dropped dead in its tracks. 6.5x47 with 140 Berger VLD. I think it was just under the far side skin.

Not sure what bullet that is, what range it was shot at, if it over penetrated, under penetrated, etc. All I can tell is that it is a bullet. Figured it was gonna be a broadhead you found.

 

[epoletna]

Hey Crkckr

you got us interested now -- let's hear about your "last hunt" with that guy.
P.S. How do you pronounce your handle?