Interesting lead free bullet design/concept

Andrew Massi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
1,028
Location
Lincoln Ca
These all appear to be super light for caliber and marketed as a 0-300 yard answer for small-medium game. Often norma gets pulled by their European roots and is geared towards driven hunts, night hunts etc.
 

azsugarbear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
1,598
Location
Central AZ
I wasn't suggesting a comparison of existing vs. new bullets, but rather a comparison of "like/similar" bullets. BC is determined primarily by weight and design. There is no way that a copper or tin bullet can compete with a cup & core lead bullet at longer distances. They just don't have the mass/weight to carry their speed down range much beyond 600 yds. If you know your shots will be under that, then the mono's will do a great job delivering terminal peformance. Beyond that, they lose speed and become much more susceptible to wind - not ideal for a long range bullet.

Hence my suggestion to compare apples to apples or copper to tin. The bullet design of the new Norma offering (two part bullet) is not new. Nosler invented that concept 70 years ago when they came out with the Nosler Partition. Speaking of which, I suspect the Nosler Partition would hold up quite well in a comparison to any mono at ranges of 500 yds or less.

The only advantage I see with the mono's is being less harmful to the environment. The copper mono's are very lethal at 600 yds. and under but beyond that, they lose steam very quickly.
 
Last edited:

Wedgy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
2,791
They just don't have the mass/weight to carry their speed down range much beyond 600 yds. If you know your shots will be under that, then the mono's will do a great job delivering terminal peformnce. Beyond that, they lose speed and become much more suseptible to wind - not ideal for a long range bullet.

The copper mono's are very lethal at 600 yds. and under but beyond that, they lose steam very quickly.
In one of the recent King of 2 Miles 9 of the top 10 finishers shot Cutting Edge bullets which are monos.
 

azsugarbear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
1,598
Location
Central AZ
They probably were using mono's. But I also suspect they weren't shooting the typical hunting rounds you and I use. Those guys are shooting the big 375's and 416's. Their rifles typically weigh 20+ pounds with a rule restriction set at max 40 pounds. Their goal is not terminal performance, but precision accuracy. Not the typical hunting scenario faced by you an me. Mono's are usually lathe turned, so they are much more uniform - hence better accuracy. But those big .375 bullets have BC's in the .95 to 1.0 range. That's well above any bullet BC found in our 30 and 7mm calibers - lead or mono. That's why they are using them.

For example: The largest 30 cal bullet made by Hammer is their 277 gr. Hammer Hunter. The stated G7 BC for this bullet is .326 (G1 BC = .630). Cutting Edge's largest 30 cal bullet, the 240 gr. Lazer Tipped Hollow Point has a stated G7 BC of .358 (G1 BC = .692). On the other hand, the Berger 245 gr. Hybrid Target has a G7 BC of .433 (G1 BC = .846). That is the real life hunting world for guys like us.

Don't get me wrong, I love mono's. I have and shoot both Cutting Edge and Hammer bullets. But they have their limitations. Just run these bullets in a ballistics model and you will see what I mean. At 800 yds., the difference in speed retention, as well as wind deflection begin to separate the lead from the mono's.
 

Jon Bischof

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2002
Messages
847
Location
Paragould, AR
Don't know about these light for caliber tin non-toxics. Might be great for thin skinned game, but I don't have direct experience with them.

On the other hand, I have evil plans to lead-poison some deer this Fall with Norma Whitetail and have had an absolute blast with Norma Bondstrike out to 400 yards with both 6.5 Creedmoor and 30-06.

If God grants me the opportunity, I will post my results on deer with both of these luscious lead laden bullets. My condolences to those who hunt in States where lead is prohibited.

Evo and Eco may or may not be long range gems, but Bondstrike is a whole 'nuther beast. Check out the BC on Bondstrike. .308 is G1 0.615 and
6.5 is
  • Ballistic coefficient


    G1


    0.629

    G7


    0.313
 

bamban

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
1,121
Location
Austin, TX
the way she says "hunting" with that accent ...... shivers down my spine .... and then "bullets" swoon ! lol

now I wanna see what she looks like

I found it for you, enjoy.

Screenshot_20220811-180630_Gallery.jpg
 

D-mon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
162
Location
Scotland
A friend of mine has done two seasons of wild boar driven hunting and red deer stalking with the norma bullets you are talking about in France. He uses a 9.3x62 .
His shooting distances are from short range up to 300m and they perform really well even on large deer (200kg+) and large wild boars.
Another of my friends is a professional stalker in Scotland and has successfully used the norma in his 6.5x55 for the last year or so. With more than 150 red deer , fallow and roe deer taken successfully at ranges up to 400yrds.
 

Hard rock

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2020
Messages
1,535
Location
Tomball Texas 77377
A friend of mine has done two seasons of wild boar driven hunting and red deer stalking with the norma bullets you are talking about in France. He uses a 9.3x62 .
His shooting distances are from short range up to 300m and they perform really well even on large deer (200kg+) and large wild boars.
Another of my friends is a professional stalker in Scotland and has successfully used the norma in his 6.5x55 for the last year or so. With more than 150 red deer , fallow and roe deer taken successfully at ranges up to 400yrds.
I bet one thing for sure , I bet anyone on this forum they don’t copper up your bore.
 

Jon Bischof

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2002
Messages
847
Location
Paragould, AR
A friend of mine has done two seasons of wild boar driven hunting and red deer stalking with the norma bullets you are talking about in France. He uses a 9.3x62 .
His shooting distances are from short range up to 300m and they perform really well even on large deer (200kg+) and large wild boars.
Another of my friends is a professional stalker in Scotland and has successfully used the norma in his 6.5x55 for the last year or so. With more than 150 red deer , fallow and roe deer taken successfully at ranges up to 400yrds.
Which Norma bullet did he use?
 

tribb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
574
Tin is less dense than copper by about 18% and is less dense than lead by about 40% (it’s 1am my math could be off). So they are relying on the frangible front half to make the wound channel and but the second half still made of tin is supposed to penetrate?

I just don’t know how well tin is going penetrate through bone especially if it’s lost half its weight after the front half fragments off. It seems this would be a better design with a copper outer jacket with bonded or partitioned tin core.
Partitions ?
 
Top