IMR 8133 .338 Edge

[701_outback]

Hello, long time looker first time post.

I searched on this issue and could not find anyone posting about the same problems I was having so I will share my story.

I inherited a "built" 700 Remington chambered in .338 RUM that was not new but very well taken care by my Dad, he had some health problems and gave me the gun. I had it reamed to .338 Edge by Joel Ackerman in ND.

I Resized .300 RUM brass, 300 grain SMK and tried to start low with the charge from what I had be reading was working. I shot 89.5 grains of H1000 and 90 grains of Retumbo. Both of these shot over pressure in this gun. H1000 left major ejector marks and a noticeably hard bolt to open, first shot on Retumbo was same, second on retumbo separated the case. But H1000 shot a really good group and retumbo was..eeehhhhhh.

So in reading I couldn't find much on the .338 edge and other powders. I found some IMR 8133 at the local running and got that. I built a ladder starting at 90gr to 97gr moving up one grain per bullet and was going to find where pressure started and pull the rest of the bullets back out that would be too hot. I headed to the range and shot all 8 rounds with ZERO pressure signs that I had from Retumbo and H1000. Weather has not been the best for the chronograph so I could not get speed readings for all bullets tested, I will post what I got below this speech.

IMR 8133 definitely cured my issues for pressure. All 8 shots stayed in about an 1" group at 100 yards which I found interesting. It meters very nicely and hopefully is a temp stable as stated. I am going to put some more bullets together to see grouping using a charge to get the average speed of where Shawn C. Is shooting 300gr SMK's and load a couple up that are shooting faster to see what that looks like. This was a long read but hopefully some guys out there having the pressure issues I was will find hope.

Remington 700
30" Krieger Barrel 1-10
Necked up .300 RUM Remington brass
Federal 215 primers
SMK 300 gr bullets

IMR 8133 - No Pressure signs

90gr - 2688 FPS
91gr - 2721 FPS
92gr - 2754 FPS
93gr - 2812 FPS
94gr - 2836 FPS
95gr - 2836 FPS
96gr - 2886 FPS
97gr - 2885 FPS

H1000

89.5gr - No speed HEAVY bolt, ejector marks. 5 shot group in .794"

Retumbo

90gr - No speed heavy bolt, ejector mark, separated case on second shot.

Stay tuned....

 

[Dosh]

701, 8133 is quite temp stable. I had the opposite result with it in my 30/378 Wby. At starting charges the 8133 ruptured a case. I quickly went back to H1000. I've also had great accuracy with the Retumbo. Per the burn rate chart 8133 is fairly equal to Retumbo, but not in my experience. IMR 7977 is very close to H1000 as well, most of the new IMR Enduron powders match up in burn rate with the popular Hodgdon powders.

 

[701_outback]

I honestly didn't think 8133 was going to be any different than Retumbo. H1000 and Retumbo are all I have ever used out of larger guns so I was a little taken back when the old trustees weren't gaining results.

 

[huntnm2001]

I am also working with 8133 in my edge. I think I am at 96.5 grains with the 285 eld m and 2940. I have not seen any pressure up to 97 grains

 

[701_outback]

.338 bullets are hard to come by locally here but one of the small shops had the 285 eld's in stock, I thought about trying those as well. Looks like your getting decent speed on them!

 

[huntnm2001]

I expect that to increase a bit as well. I only have 15 rounds down the barrel. Using a 30 inch x caliber

 

[robert l]

Hello, long time looker first time post.

I searched on this issue and could not find anyone posting about the same problems I was having so I will share my story.

I inherited a "built" 700 Remington chambered in .338 RUM that was not new but very well taken care by my Dad, he had some health problems and gave me the gun. I had it reamed to .338 Edge by Joel Ackerman in ND.

I Resized .300 RUM brass, 300 grain SMK and tried to start low with the charge from what I had be reading was working. I shot 89.5 grains of H1000 and 90 grains of Retumbo. Both of these shot over pressure in this gun. H1000 left major ejector marks and a noticeably hard bolt to open, first shot on Retumbo was same, second on retumbo separated the case. But H1000 shot a really good group and retumbo was..eeehhhhhh.

So in reading I couldn't find much on the .338 edge and other powders. I found some IMR 8133 at the local running and got that. I built a ladder starting at 90gr to 97gr moving up one grain per bullet and was going to find where pressure started and pull the rest of the bullets back out that would be too hot. I headed to the range and shot all 8 rounds with ZERO pressure signs that I had from Retumbo and H1000. Weather has not been the best for the chronograph so I could not get speed readings for all bullets tested, I will post what I got below this speech.

IMR 8133 definitely cured my issues for pressure. All 8 shots stayed in about an 1" group at 100 yards which I found interesting. It meters very nicely and hopefully is a temp stable as stated. I am going to put some more bullets together to see grouping using a charge to get the average speed of where Shawn C. Is shooting 300gr SMK's and load a couple up that are shooting faster to see what that looks like. This was a long read but hopefully some guys out there having the pressure issues I was will find hope.

Remington 700
30" Krieger Barrel 1-10
Necked up .300 RUM Remington brass
Federal 215 primers
SMK 300 gr bullets

IMR 8133 - No Pressure signs

90gr - 2688 FPS
91gr - 2721 FPS
92gr - 2754 FPS
93gr - 2812 FPS
94gr - 2836 FPS
95gr - 2836 FPS
96gr - 2886 FPS
97gr - 2885 FPS

H1000

89.5gr - No speed HEAVY bolt, ejector marks. 5 shot group in .794"

Retumbo

90gr - No speed heavy bolt, ejector mark, separated case on second shot.

Stay tuned....

That is strange How far from the lands were you? I would try the h 1000 again at 10 off or touching the lands.If your mag is to short and you are loading to the mag you maybe compressing your load to much.And do you know how much throat you have? Just a thought. My edge has no problems and i have done load del. on six different bullets.Im interested in finding out what is the cause and remendy. Bob.

 

[robert l]

.338 bullets are hard to come by locally here but one of the small shops had the 285 eld's in stock, I thought about trying those as well. Looks like your getting decent speed on them!

I use my edge as a every thing rifle. Like i said i use 200 to 300 grain pills and after the first of the year i plan on doing load del. on some 185 grain pills.

 

[robert l]

I expect that to increase a bit as well. I only have 15 rounds down the barrel. Using a 30 inch x caliber

And if you are breaking in the barrel you are to hot. i would start in the low to mid 80s. then after twenty to thirty rounds then start going up. i would start with 5 round groups then clean for the first 20 rounds good luck

 

[Bravo 4]

Not trying to be rude with this, just speaking from experience (15+ years loading .338 Edge and RUM). Switching from H1000 to 8133 didn't cure your pressure problems, you just simply started too high with H1000. Starting at 89.5 was too high for your particular rifle. My .338 Edge ran at 90 grains H1000 and that was about as hard as I wanted to push it, primer pockets gave up after 3-4 firings. My buddy's goes up to 91 grains, but is throated longer. I'm not saying that H1000 will give you better performance (speed) than 8133, I'm just saying it was operator error that you got pressure with an initial load. I actually am running 8133 in my RUM and it isn't giving me the speeds I want. But then again, that is my fault (operator error). I'm shooting too light a grain bullet for that powder and not maximizing its potential. Just an FYI, 8133 has mirrored RL25 in my rifle with same velocity for a given powder charge with a couple different bullets.
Now in saying all that, if you are getting 2900'ish fps with the Edge and 300 grainers (no matter the powder) then I would be happy with that and try adjusting seating depth and see if the groups tighten up. Then shoot it at distance to see if the accuracy holds up.

 

[701_outback]

Bravo 4,

I would agree that 89.5 grains of H1000 is too hot and I built them that way so yes operator error. I know I'm not getting the speed I want if I have to back off to 87 grains or so to keep everything happy. I could just shoot 250 grainers or 300's slow, but that's not what I'm after. My goal was to get a 300grain bullet moving above 2800 FPS, 8133 did it perfectly.

I am .020 off the lands. I did try touching the lands, .020 off and .040 off with no change in pressure, I left this out of the original post to save the read time since there was no real useable info in it.

I don't know the exact numbers but the throat was long when it was a .338 RUM it was a single shot with an unusable mag. I had Joel put a Wyatt's mag in it so now that's not an issue. My COAL with SMK .020 off is 3.820". The barrel is past break in, my Dad put a decent amount of rounds through it as a .338 RUM

I went to the range today, unfortunately only 100 yards, more to see if data was holding together I guess than anything. 96 grains of 8133 and 300 SMK shot really good I would say, 2886 average speed with a 7 ES, 5 shot groups were just inside 1"

 

[Bravo 4]

Did you try 87 grains H1000 and get slow speeds or are you just assuming they will be slow due to the seemingly low'ish powder charge? If you are assuming then I would tell you not to. Just because it seems low compared to others doesn't mean it is in your rifle. Pressure is what pushes the bullet and builds the velocity, if 87 is the max working load in your rifle (hypothetically) then it is gonna be at max working (acceptable) pressures producing max velocity. If you did try 87 grains and it was max but didn't give you the velocity you want then so be it. You do what you want, I just think your load development technique is at fault (again...not flaming you), and you didn't start low and work your way up. Like I stated earlier, if you're happy with 8133 then go have fun.

 

[701_outback]

I would agree with you totally on improper load development for h1000 and take no offense. I didn't put as much leg work in as I could to possibly have the same results or better. The first rounds I shot out of the rifle just to see it shoot, measure the case and what not, was 84.5 grains of H1000 and 300grain pill which showed 2430 average on the graph, zero pressure. So I stepped'er up a notch at 89.5 and ran into the issues. Now I understand that is a JUMP, but with past experience and interweb data I figured I would still be below 2800 FPS at 89.5gr, a Definite assumption from where I was at with 84.5 grains.

I really need to get a light kit for the chronograph. I am a little mad at myself for not knowing where I was exactly at 89.5 grains, but like I said, I don't think I would be at 2800.

 

[Rhovee]

Are you guys running them short coal? I am at 4.1" single shot and shoot 93 grains of H1000 for 2805 in 28" barrel.