IMR 4451 and 300 WSM data

screamrider

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Just wondering if anyone has found good data on IMR 4451 for a 300 WSM with 180 grain TTSX?

I'm about to work up my first loads with H4350 and IMR 4451. I can find loads of data on the H4350, but with the IMR 4451 being so new I can't find any.

Appreciate any help you can offer.
 

Shortmagman

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The Hodgdon web site give data for IMR-4451 and 180 grain lead bullets. You can use this data, only make sure you start low and work up. I have found that in most cases the Barnes TTSX bullets are not that different from lead bullets when it comes to how much powder they need for a specific velocity.
 

Shortmagman

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Not all the copper bullets are the same. Even with the Barnes bullets there is a difference between the (TSX,TTSX) and their solid bullets. The Triple shock bullets have grooves that reduce the pressure and they act more like a regular bullet.
I have no experience with Nosler E-tip, but I have shot many Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets in many calibers from .243, 264, .277, 284, and .308. I have some loads that I am using the same powder charge for a Nolser Accubond and a Barnes TTSX and the velocity is almost the same.
 

screamrider

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Not all the copper bullets are the same. Even with the Barnes bullets there is a difference between the (TSX,TTSX) and their solid bullets. The Triple shock bullets have grooves that reduce the pressure and they act more like a regular bullet.
I have no experience with Nosler E-tip, but I have shot many Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets in many calibers from .243, 264, .277, 284, and .308. I have some loads that I am using the same powder charge for a Nolser Accubond and a Barnes TTSX and the velocity is almost the same.
I'm new to reloading and I'm hoping someone can explain why there is such different data for various different 180 grain bullets with the same powder?

For instance, Barnes told me directly to use a min of 60.0 and a max of 66.0 with 180 grain TTSX in 300 WSM, H4350.

The Hodgon website, however, says a min of 59.0 and a max of 63.7 compressed for 180 grain Nosler E-tip with H4350 in 300 WSM.

The biggest thing I take away from this is that I cannot simply use any 180 grain data for a 180 grain TTSX...or am I missing something?
 

Shortmagman

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Feb 22, 2008
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screamrider,

The simple answer is that bullets are made different. Even the copper ones we are talking about are different. Example the Barnes TSX an TTSX have groves that reduce the pressure. Because of the surface area of the bullet that comes in contact with the barrel is different with different bullets you get more or less pressure. It is more that just the weight of the bullet.

Of course there are other factors, too many to mention in this short answer.

The thing to do to keep safe is to use good data from good sources, and follow it.

Use the brass that was used and the primers that was used when the data was collected. Start low and work up! Don't every start with the max load.

No you are not missing something. You just cannot simply use all data for all 180 grain bullets. From my experience and from the data I have looked at the 180 TTSX bullets come very close to needing the same data as other 180 grain lead bullets. With the Nosler E-tip and some other solid copper bullets you need to use data developed for that bullet.

You asked about the data from Barnes and the Hodgdon web site. As I stated above the Nolser E-tip and the TTSX bullet are different. If you were to use either data you would have been ok. because the starting load was 60.0 for one and 59.0 grains for the other. If you use the starting load and watch for presssure signs you will be fine.
 

screamrider

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Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
45
Location
California
screamrider,

The simple answer is that bullets are made different. Even the copper ones we are talking about are different. Example the Barnes TSX an TTSX have groves that reduce the pressure. Because of the surface area of the bullet that comes in contact with the barrel is different with different bullets you get more or less pressure. It is more that just the weight of the bullet.

Of course there are other factors, too many to mention in this short answer.

The thing to do to keep safe is to use good data from good sources, and follow it.

Use the brass that was used and the primers that was used when the data was collected. Start low and work up! Don't every start with the max load.

No you are not missing something. You just cannot simply use all data for all 180 grain bullets. From my experience and from the data I have looked at the 180 TTSX bullets come very close to needing the same data as other 180 grain lead bullets. With the Nosler E-tip and some other solid copper bullets you need to use data developed for that bullet.

You asked about the data from Barnes and the Hodgdon web site. As I stated above the Nolser E-tip and the TTSX bullet are different. If you were to use either data you would have been ok. because the starting load was 60.0 for one and 59.0 grains for the other. If you use the starting load and watch for presssure signs you will be fine.
Understood, I appreciate the reply. I'm going to load my first batch tomorrow and plan to go from 59.0 up to 64.0 in 0.5 grain increments. This falls 2 grains short of the Barnes Max load, which gives me an extra safety margin. Of course I'll keep an eye out for any pressure signs as well once I get to the range this weekend!
 

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