Improving the 308 Win performance

I am playing around with a Savage 99 in .308 right now. I have loaded 165 grain Sierra bullets with H380 and Federal magnum primers. First five shots showed an extreme spread of 6 FPS. I was shooting at rocks, so I don't know they group yet. Loaded more but have not gone to the range yet. Your post was encouraging. Thank you. I have shot one whitetail at about 130 yards with this rifle so far.
You should have seen the target the day befor the one posted. 100 yds I could not put 2 rounds side by side. Then realized the remington rounds I was shooting were from 1977 and stored in the garage for 40 years. Got the new rounds the next day and sighted for 300 with the results shown.
Good luck at the range, Would love to see the results!
 
You need to account for the characteristics of not only the SRP brass and the high energy of LVR powder but also the high bc of the Badlands bullets. See the JBM trajectory calculation for the 150 and 175g 308 BD2 bullets. The MVs I quoted in those trajectory calculations are from loads I have used many times safely with no pressure signs. The high speed that LVR is able to impart to these high BC bullets combine to significantly outperform conventional copper and lead core bullets. Note these are calculations made at standard sea level conditions. You can recalculate the trajectory calculations at 4500 ft elevation which is even more favorable and more realistic elevation at which Elk are taken. These MVs are achieved from 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel and measured using a Lab Radar. Brass used was Lapua Palma and primer was the CCI450 primer at a COAL of 2.950". Action was a Savage short action. Powder was Leverevolution starting at 45 gr and increasing the charge by 1 gr until some primer flattening is seen.
The chart calculations say you could. But the real question here is whether you should. 🤔 The conditions on the charts are based on ideal. If the wind increases, heat changes, or rain, then your stacking the odds against you. Not to mention a 275+ inch drop. How often do we actually find perfect conditions in the real world? Add the fact that elk are really tough skinned and you can bet that your going to be tracking it for a while. Anything less than a perfect shot will undoubtedly cause the animal undue suffering which I will have no part of. BTW, your loading max pressure loads and shooting the gun at the extreme top end of its capability. How long do you expect your brass and barrel to last? Again, think, "clean and ethical kill". I stand by what I said before. There are better cartridges for this particular shot on elk. Such as the 30.06 or 300prc. Or something like that.
 
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Nothing but a stock .308 Win, Model 99 Savage from 1960. 1 in 12, Weaver hunting scope 3x9, I believe V9 no turrets, shooting PMC Bronze 147 Grain off the shelf rounds.18X24inch target with 1" numbers.This was the first time sighting my fathers gun he passed down to me since 1982. I was shooting 3 rounds per set. There is a clover and a 8 as you can see. The top center alone was the first of the set for the 8 and a final adjustment. Then hit the 8 , reloaded 3 rounds and shot the clover. Distance 300 yds, wind~0, Temp 85 plus, Humidity, Georgia summer Hell! Location Ft Moore ( Formally FT Benning )Recreational Shooting Complex. Many Blacktail at 100 - 200 yds with this gun over the years. I would not expect to take a large Elk with this past 500 yds. As for accuracy given the right conditions, I would trust lead on steel to 1000. Understanding the hobbie, what more are we all looking for? Seems like fine performance?

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It will always be Ft Benning in my mind.
 
So you're saying you would take the shot with a 30-06 as it's that much superior to the 308 load in question? Which 30-06 load are you referring to? Just curious.
As I stated, the 30.06 case holds more powder. It will always out perform a 308, if for no other reason. Both use the same primer and bullet selection. But it can use heavier bullets than a 308 at distance. "If" I were to take a 1000 yd shot with a 30.06, I'd look at a 175+ grain bullet. Nice velocity and energy at finish. I always load my own.
 
It will always be Ft Benning in my mind.

Here is something to remind you of Benning... Easley Range, SDM class. Augmenting AMU

Walking the Line (1).JPG
Class Picture (1).JPG
 
The chart calculations say you could. But the real question here is whether you should. 🤔 The conditions on the charts are based on ideal. If the wind increases, heat changes, or rain, then your stacking the odds against you. Not to mention a 275+ inch drop. How often do we actually find perfect conditions in the real world? Add the fact that elk are really tough skinned and you can bet that your going to be tracking it for a while. Anything less than a perfect shot will undoubtedly cause the animal undue suffering which I will have no part of. BTW, your loading max pressure loads and shooting the gun at the extreme top end of its capability. How long do you expect your brass and barrel to last? Again, think, "clean and ethical kill". I stand by what I said before. There are better cartridges for this particular shot on elk. Such as the 30.06 or 300prc. Or something like that.
Those loads I described actually out do most 30-06 loads using lead core or other copper bullets. The key is the high BC of the Badlands bullets and the higher energy of the LVR powder yielding higher MVs. I don't know why people can't comprehend that high BC allows the bullet to shed less energy during it's flight causing the bullet to hit at a higher velocity at any given distance. 900 yd shots are not for everyone to take because skill levels vary a lot from shooter to shooter. The discussion here is not ethics. In fact this site discourages discussion of ethics. There are plenty of mediocre shooters out there that are challenged by 100 yd shots. Should they be allowed to hunt at all? Who will test their skill and enforce any regulations on them? I personally keep my hunting range to 500 yds or less, but using a high BC flatter shooting bullet that penetrates much better than lower BC lead core bullets can only increase the chances of a successful one shot DRT kill. I hate to track wounded animals. Until you have hunted with the Badlands bullets, you can't predict their performance on game based on lead core slower bullets.
 
Here is something to remind you of Benning... Easley Range, SDM class. Augmenting AMU

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A motley bunch to be sure. Kidding. It was very long ago that I shot there. Memories. An old friend, SFC Johnston, invited me to shoot with him when I was TDY in the area. He won. He's gone now. RIP. Days gone by.
 
Those loads I described actually out do most 30-06 loads using lead core or other copper bullets. The key is the high BC of the Badlands bullets and the higher energy of the LVR powder yielding higher MVs. I don't know why people can't comprehend that high BC allows the bullet to shed less energy during it's flight causing the bullet to hit at a higher velocity at any given distance. 900 yd shots are not for everyone to take because skill levels vary a lot from shooter to shooter. The discussion here is not ethics. In fact this site discourages discussion of ethics. There are plenty of mediocre shooters out there that are challenged by 100 yd shots. Should they be allowed to hunt at all? Who will test their skill and enforce any regulations on them? I personally keep my hunting range to 500 yds or less, but using a high BC flatter shooting bullet that penetrates much better than lower BC lead core bullets can only increase the chances of a successful one shot DRT kill. I hate to track wounded animals. Until you have hunted with the Badlands bullets, you can't predict their performance on game based on lead core slower bullets.
Hey, bud.

I am shooting my 06 with 215 Bergers coming out 2830. Compare that with the 150 BDs. Have not, so please, do us a favor and compare.
 
Those loads I described actually out do most 30-06 loads using lead core or other copper bullets. The key is the high BC of the Badlands bullets and the higher energy of the LVR powder yielding higher MVs. I don't know why people can't comprehend that high BC allows the bullet to shed less energy during it's flight causing the bullet to hit at a higher velocity at any given distance. 900 yd shots are not for everyone to take because skill levels vary a lot from shooter to shooter. The discussion here is not ethics. In fact this site discourages discussion of ethics. There are plenty of mediocre shooters out there that are challenged by 100 yd shots. Should they be allowed to hunt at all? Who will test their skill and enforce any regulations on them? I personally keep my hunting range to 500 yds or less, but using a high BC flatter shooting bullet that penetrates much better than lower BC lead core bullets can only increase the chances of a successful one shot DRT kill. I hate to track wounded animals. Until you have hunted with the Badlands bullets, you can't predict their performance on game based on lead core slower bullets.
This discussion IS about ethical killing of elk. Why wouldn't it be? Your main point was taking elk at 900yds. And yes, I fully understand bc effects. High bc is always preferable, especially at range. I will not shoot a 308 at 900yds at elk. I just don't think it has enough juice for this distance. Too many variables causing bad outcome for me. Never a good idea to press an "iffy" outcome. I don't care what component combo is used. I am more concerned about not putting my target down, drt. I'd rather go out hunting with a caliber I absolutely know will get the job done with no questions or concerns about effectiveness.
 
As I stated, the 30.06 case holds more powder. It will always out perform a 308, if for no other reason. Both use the same primer and bullet selection. But it can use heavier bullets than a 308 at distance. "If" I were to take a 1000 yd shot with a 30.06, I'd look at a 175+ grain bullet. Nice velocity and energy at finish. I always load my own.
Whether or not a 30-06 will always outperform a 308 Win is irrelevant to this thread. As I have stated before on this thread, its purpose is to come up with loads for the 308Win that improve it's performance significantly using higher quality components. In many instances those loads out perform published data for the '06. So for the guy with a 308 Win who wants to get better performance from his 308 this is the place.
 
This discussion IS about ethical killing of elk. Why wouldn't it be? Your main point was taking elk at 900yds. And yes, I fully understand bc effects. High bc is always preferable, especially at range. I will not shoot a 308 at 900yds at elk. I just don't think it has enough juice for this distance. Too many variables causing bad outcome for me. Never a good idea to press an "iffy" outcome. I don't care what component combo is used. I am more concerned about not putting my target down, drt. I'd rather go out hunting with a caliber I absolutely know will get the job done with no questions or concerns about effectiveness.
Just my 2 pennies but at 900 everything is iffy, the 308 is a capable as any
 
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Whether or not a 30-06 will always outperform a 308 Win is irrelevant to this thread. As I have stated before on this thread, its purpose is to come up with loads for the 308Win that improve it's performance significantly using higher quality components. In many instances those loads out perform published data for the '06. So for the guy with a 308 Win who wants to get better performance from his 308 this is the place.
I think the OP mentioned a 30.06 way back in the threads beginning. The 308 is my favorite cartridge. Period. But it has distance limitations that my experience has taught me. You can push it out to 900yds. I've tried it, and hit the mark. But I was not happy with my results. If I need to go that distance, I'll take my 30.06 or 300wm. (FYI, I don't shoot that far anymore, too many obstacles to sucess.) Assuming a 30 caliber is what's on the bill, the new components for 30 caliber are great! The performance increases in the past few years are incredible. I'm concerned about using too little gun for a job more suited to a more capable cartridge. At this time! In a post on a different thread I made a while back, I stated a bad experience I had taking that long shot. I won't take that chance again.
 
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