I want to hit first time 900+

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by CadaverousBloom, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. CadaverousBloom

    CadaverousBloom New Member

    Aug 9, 2010
    Im one of those guys that like to mil out my target Ill bring a calculator or notepad dont matter I just dont like electronics out there so here is the problem I cant find a ballistics chart for .338 Remington ultra Mag that goes past 700 yards ... I dont like the idea of people with programs on there phones and pocket pc things doing all the work to get the dope for there scope... I want to take a little more time and pride in my work that im doing what i call the fun stuff. I think that is crazy to have to pay for software or programs like that and the idea of it even sickens me. Need some tips here On a nice ballistics chart for a .338 RUM and what u guys are doing to adjust for angle, wind and so one without all these computer programs and so on. I mean Im mean i could go out there and test and almost every yardline ... ok then adjust for every 10 degress in temp... I have not done any high angle shooting .
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    I can appreciate you personal choice to not use electronics and a ballistic proram. But my question is, How are you going to range the animal with out an electronic laser? If you are choosing to range with a reticle you will find that this will have its limits to distance for a first round well placed hit. For example you used 900 yards. A deer that is larger or smaller by 1.8" on the dimention used to judge the distance will proudce a 10% error in ranging at 900 yards. That is a 90 yard error and will result in a huge miss. This could be why you are finding that guys ranging with reticles might choose to real in the distance in an effort to reduce the margin of error.

  3. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2008
    JBM Calculations! You can plug in info and then print a paper drop sheet. The other option as stated by you, is go out and shoot each distance in 100yrd increments. Record your turns and and write them down.

  4. brentc

    brentc Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2009
    You're not looking hard enough. Any decent ballistics program will do what you need. Berger has a free one on their website. All you have to do is enter your information and you've got your drop chart. Use the G1 BC factor if you don't know the G7.
  5. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2009
    He don't like "electronics" :D

    cadaverousBloom, I am probably the worst person to even pick up a PC and I find that the NF is really easy to use and that speaks volumes !

  6. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

    Nov 24, 2008
    Your only option, if your not going to use electronics is to shoot and create your own drop chart and write it out. Unfortunately for you the best way to create the charts you want is with the programs you hate, my ballistics program with create charts for angle, wind, and just about any other thing you can think of, I like to keep a hard copy of these things so I'm not tied to the PPC. I shoot a lot to validate these charts before hand. I can mill out a target and use the PPC to calculate the range but that falls apart sooner than you think.

    If you look back into LRH you will find some of the best guys on here started out milling and quickly up graded to LRF and Ballistics program of some kind simply because the 1st shot cold bore hits is what they are after!!

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2008
    With everything I read in your post and the way I understood it, you should be making your own ballistics drop table and not using a computer gererated chart.

    They only way to do that is to shoot and record your own results.

    IMO using MILs in long range hunting for the porpose of determining range to a game animal is not a good idea and here is why. The MIL trace it's history in military applications to artillery and sniping use for ranging.

    Lets talk sniping because it most closely relates to LRH. When using MILs on the battle field for the intended purpose of hunting men (game animal), the sniper uses mils to take measurements of objects of known size ie, helmets, weapons .etc, too determin the range to target (Elk, Deer,Pigs do not where battle rattle). What can you use that is a know size? A tree.........

    People and game are all diffrent sizes so like BROZ said in his post the error is just to great for a one shot kill! In addition you shoot at a human they are very likely to just stand there for a min or 10 depending on religion and give you many solid opportunitys to correct your shot in my experience a deer will not.

    So I'm not saying it cant be done at all I'm just saying it cant be done ethically 100% of the time using only MILs. I would use both just to get the practice with the mills but confirm with the lazer.

    If you change your mind send me a PM with your email and I will send you a free calculator.
  8. load

    load Well-Known Member

    Jan 18, 2010
    even with electronics you still have to do one thing to make first shot hits.... verify. shoot ranges and verify and record were you hit. if you dont want to use electronics than just shoot drops at all ranges and record results
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Well-Known Member

    Jan 20, 2004
    Welcome aboard!

    You make some great points.

    I'm with you and your thinking and would reinforce what Broz, lilank, brentc and bigbuck are saying.

    My ranging efforts under comfortable conditions and plenty of time normally results in a >100% error when ranging elk with the Mil reticle. I mil'd one at 600+ average over a 30 min period. Laser said 360! If I use one of those bright orange tubular floaties (kids use for swimming) cut to 36" I do better but not close enough plus I can't handle the mind calculations.

    I have an Ipaq with Exbal on it but don't carry it much as battery life really sux. Plus in cold weather battery life gets even worse. I'm heavily considering an Ipod with the external ballistics program that is available.

    I use JBM and run it for different angles and altitudes to get a 'feel' for the affects of each. I prove the drop chart by shooting to distances. Once the drop chart is proofed its printed and taped to the butt stock where its immediately handy.

    As my learning curve continues I will probably move away from the drop chart being the primary tool to the electronics and clicking. For now I'm not quite ready.

    The secret is to put the best computer in the universe to use or at least use it to adjust the calcs a bit.

    For example: Buffalobob a few years ago made two shots on a nice bull elk at 996 yards. The shot had a bit of an up angle but not much. He ranged it and dialed the clicks. Then his noggin' said 2 more clicks. Two clicks he went. Result 2 shots a few inches apart, spot on at point of aim and brought the meat and antlers home.

    Just for fun here's my drop chart for the 338 RUM, 300gr Berger Hybrid, 102 gr H-50 BMG, Fed 215 primers. MV @ 84*F @ 2760. ES around 12 FPS. The first part goes to 880 yards as 5 Mils is all the reticle has. Part 2 goes goes on out but shifts to clicks beyond 5 Mils, using the top of the post as the aiming point.

    I've learned from confirming the chart to 1177 that I have plenty of clicks in the scope and am in the process of putting a 20 MOA down cant on the scope as the clicks are spot on accurate. Learned that also from confirming the drop chart.

    When proofing the drops, shooting distances the other day, 560, 680, 1003 and 1177 the only first shot hit was at 1003. Elevation was spot on but as usual the wind did us in. As the rocks didn't move, the second shot was spot on except for 1177 where it took 3.:rolleyes:

    The drop chart was spot on for elevation due to Bergers updated BCs being on the mark.

    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2008

    Good points I like what you tried with the float thing. I tried using my HORUS system and mils and could not do it either and I though I was spot on every time but the lazer said I was an idiotlightbulb.
  11. rdsii64

    rdsii64 Well-Known Member

    Dec 11, 2008
    I must applaud your enthusiastic old school approach to achieve your goal. having those skills is a good back up when the electronics go south on you. The problem is that the tools you are trying to avoid will give you the most accurate information. ACCURATE INFORMATION is what you need for a first round cold bore hit on a game animal. Please continue to keep your manual skills sharp. In a pinch they can come in handy. However, please reconsider the use of appropriate electronics aids. they will increase your probability of a one shot clean kill at what ever range you take the shot.