I need your opinions

[angus-5024]

Mud,
I always respect your opinion as you do a lot of shooting and are a reputable member of this site. That said, you gotta lay off the .338 hate! I love 7mm's, and I think that they are phenomenal performer, but you CANNOT put them in the same league as any Medium sized .338.
I have been shooting a .338 RUM long before the Lapua "Kool-Aid" hit the market. The amount of ENERGY from a RUM sized .338 dwarfs the 7 STW and doesn't leave your barrel toasted in 900. You cant say that its all about shot placement because Hogs and Whitetails are not Moose, Elk, Grizzly or Bison! Living in central B.C I run into grizzlies several times a season and know that all the animals I listed can take a ton of lead. even if you put it in the boiler room.
Your .338 Win to the 338 lapua is like your quote on the .284 win compared to the 7 STW. NOT COMPARABLE.
With all that said MOST guys cannot shoot their .338s well enough to make a difference (most cant shoot anything bigger that a 7 Rem either), but there is a Big Difference.
In Alaska there are big animals. A lot of guys shoot big guns. There is a reason that 30 cal and up is the norm!

To the OP,
Sorry for the rant. to much coffee, not enough huntin'. I feel that if you are shooting under a grand and Elk, Moose, G-Bear and Bison are off the list there is no need to get anything other than your 7 Rem Mag (STW's are sweet though).
The Senduro in 300 RUM would also be a good fit (especially rocking 230 Hybrids) if you are looking to stretch it a bit. It will come very close to .338 Lapua ballistics.
However... .338's are a ton of fun if you can afford to feed them and they kick the snot out of most everything.

 

[LeddSlinger]

You've seen no reason because you've never shot at those ranges in multiple conditions on big game, still does not mean they don't have their place. I tend to shoot a lot smaller cals than even you on much bigger game but I dang sure will respect what the wind, range and type of animal I'm taking will do with those small cals and there is are times and places where a big 338 bullet just has no equal and it's something you'll know when you see it!

Totally agree.

Mudrunner just doesn't know because he has no experience with 33 cal rounds.

The last 2 deer I shot were with my 338-375 Ruger using 250gr Berger Elite Hunter bullets. Both in a 20+mph crosswind at 380 yards and 265 yards. Trust me, there's a difference in how that bullet flies in the wind. And when it hits after leaving the barrel at 2925 fps?.... Well that's just pure magic that is only understood by those who have witnessed it first hand

I have never been a fan of the 30-06 or 308 win for hunting, but I'll never deny their potency and place in the field because I have watched a few of my buddies take a lot of game with those rounds. Anyone who has experience with big 33s knows for a fact that they have their place in the field and fill a broad niche between 30 cal and 375 cal for hunting. (I left out 35 cal cuz it's nearly obsolete)

If a 338 caliber round was not "needed" for North American game, then why does Alaska state law require a minimum of a 338 Winchester to hunt Brown bears?... I rest my case...

 

[machiavelli]

I hunt Thar and goats on the tops (West coast New Zealand) long ranges and strong winds are the norm, the 338Lm ****es all over the 300Wm, giving good clean kills.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mud,
I always respect your opinion as you do a lot of shooting and are a reputable member of this site. That said, you gotta lay off the .338 hate! I love 7mm's, and I think that they are phenomenal performer, but you CANNOT put them in the same league as any Medium sized .338.
I have been shooting a .338 RUM long before the Lapua "Kool-Aid" hit the market. The amount of ENERGY from a RUM sized .338 dwarfs the 7 STW and doesn't leave your barrel toasted in 900. You cant say that its all about shot placement because Hogs and Whitetails are not Moose, Elk, Grizzly or Bison! Living in central B.C I run into grizzlies several times a season and know that all the animals I listed can take a ton of lead. even if you put it in the boiler room.
Your .338 Win to the 338 lapua is like your quote on the .284 win compared to the 7 STW. NOT COMPARABLE.
With all that said MOST guys cannot shoot their .338s well enough to make a difference (most cant shoot anything bigger that a 7 Rem either), but there is a Big Difference.
In Alaska there are big animals. A lot of guys shoot big guns. There is a reason that 30 cal and up is the norm!

To the OP,
Sorry for the rant. to much coffee, not enough huntin'. I feel that if you are shooting under a grand and Elk, Moose, G-Bear and Bison are off the list there is no need to get anything other than your 7 Rem Mag (STW's are sweet though).
The Senduro in 300 RUM would also be a good fit (especially rocking 230 Hybrids) if you are looking to stretch it a bit. It will come very close to .338 Lapua ballistics.
However... .338's are a ton of fun if you can afford to feed them and they kick the snot out of most everything.

I'm not recoil sensative...I'm not a small guy. I've shot much bigger rifles (un-braked) than .338 calibers and hit just fine.

 

[HARPERC]

Wait for the 7 stw (I prob wont see it in my hands untill after seasons over) or scrap the idea and go with the 338lm savage??? Im not a stranger to recoil so that's not an issue but it one superior to the other.

I'd go with the .338 over the 7mm.1) I'd take the Savage over the Remington, 2) I like sooner than later, 3) They tell me your location has some wind on occasion. 4) No first hand with either one, but my experience with the standard RUM, and Edge leads me to believe barrel life is better with a .338. Of course that can play the other way, shoot it out faster get it out of your system, then get something else.

 

[bushwackr]

Hi carl how's it going, anyway I was trying to look at these cartridges two ways ballisitcally, and longevity. I come to a conclusion that the 7 maybe be flatter shooting with more velocity,but I feel the 338 will hang on better in the wind and offer better barrel life. Like Harperc said it tends to get a tad drafty this way. Especially when I head to the western part of the state. I would think that the heaver 338 would buck the wind better. On the other hand. The 338 uses 250,and 300gr pills that's a lot of bullet hitting good meat if I make a bad wind call, cause im not perfect. I don't know if the 168 I planned on putting thru the 7 would make such a mess.

Mudrunner. What ammo did you run thru your 338, factory or hand loads, did you try diffrent bullets all the usuall stuff to develop a load

 

[MudRunner2005]

Hi carl how's it going, anyway I was trying to look at these cartridges two ways ballisitcally, and longevity. I come to a conclusion that the 7 maybe be flatter shooting with more velocity,but I feel the 338 will hang on better in the wind and offer better barrel life. Like Harperc said it tends to get a tad drafty this way. Especially when I head to the western part of the state. I would think that the heaver 338 would buck the wind better. On the other hand. The 338 uses 250,and 300gr pills that's a lot of bullet hitting good meat if I make a bad wind call, cause im not perfect. I don't know if the 168 I planned on putting thru the 7 would make such a mess.

Mudrunner. What ammo did you run thru your 338, factory or hand loads, did you try diffrent bullets all the usuall stuff to develop a load

I would imagine the .338 would make a substantial mess, then again, so will anything if the shot hits the wrong place.

There's people who drop moose inside of 500 yards with .25-06's with 1 shot. Shot placement is EVERYTHING. Brute power is important with large game, but it is not all there is to a successful hunt. Ask the member on here (can't ever remember his name) who dropped a monster moose with 1 shot @ 9xx yards with a plain ole' 7mm RemMag.


As for my .338 failure...

One box was handloads using 210gr Swift Scirocco's, and the other was a box of Barnes Vortex 210 TTSX's. It didn't like either of those, so I snatched the barrel and sold it to someone else. Then I turned that rifle into a 7mm RM for deer season this past year. Which is now a heavy barreled .300 Ackley Mag in a HS Precision Sendero stock.

If you want a 1500 yard monster shoot a .300 Ackley Mag with a Berger 210 VLD, or even a 215 Hybrid.

It's basically an improved, fattened, 40* shouldered .300 Weatherby. It hits hard.

Also, my gunsmith has been smithing for 25+ years (machining for much longer than that), and he builds benchrest rifles that will put 5 in the SAME hole @ 200 yards. I've seen his trophies and his targets. I've also seen how he makes my rifles shoot with a worked factory barrel on them.

He won't own a .338 Lapua. He built simself and a couple clients one, using custom actions, Krieger barrls, and McMillan stocks. All 3 of them couldn't get any of the rifles to group better than 5/8" @ 100 yards. He said average was barely under 1" groups on a no-wind day with perfect conditions using Lapua brass, Lapua bullets, and whatever model Vihtavuori powder.

He'll build you one...But he won't guarantee accuracy.

That's not why I don't like them, I disliked them long before I used the gunsmith. But seeing how he can make my factory barreled guns shoot 1/8 and 1/4 MOA groups @ 100 yards, I take his word for it.

 

[bushwackr]

I didn't know there was enough neck on the 300 brass to do anything with them

 

[MudRunner2005]

I didn't know there was enough neck on the 300 brass to do anything with them

.300 Weatherby has a long neck.

.300 WM has a shorter neck, like the 7mm RemMag.

 

[Bravo 4]

A 7mm or .30 can do anything a .338 can do. Shot placement is key.

Unless you're shooting dangerous game in Africa, or shooting beyond 1500 yards, I see no reason to step up beyond a .30.

I disliked .338's long before I owned one. It just helped solidify the uselessness of one for north american game. I've also never liked a .270 Win. Never liked a .30-06 Sprg, either. Still don't. The .30-06 AI is a different beast entirely, and is an Ackley, and I respect and revere PO Ackley's work, therefore I have more respect for it.

You cannot deny that the .338's are only as popular as they are because they are the newest trend on the block, and because nobody has made any huge advancements in .35, .375, .408 bullet tech that is more affordable and in more supply and demand.

I would feel the same way about anything larger than a .30 cal as well. It's not just hate for the .338.

I won't deny that to some it's a trend or cool to have a .338 Lapua or such. Those guys, if I'm asked my opinion, are the ones I usually try to dissuade from buying one. Most of the time they bite off more than they can chew and the rifle sits up somewhere or gets shot on the local 200 yard range.
But to guys like myself and many others it is more of an evolution. And yes the only reason I do not have something larger (.338 AM, .375 AM, etc) is because of two things...variety of bullets and money.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I won't deny that to some it's a trend or cool to have a .338 Lapua or such. Those guys, if I'm asked my opinion, are the ones I usually try to dissuade from buying one. Most of the time they bite off more than they can chew and the rifle sits up somewhere or gets shot on the local 200 yard range.
But to guys like myself and many others it is more of an evolution. And yes the only reason I do not have something larger (.338 AM, .375 AM, etc) is because of two things...variety of bullets and money.

I agree. I see a fair bit of .338 Lapuas around here and RUM calibers sitting on used racks at gun shops. Most people get bit by the bug, and then get bit by the caliber, and don't want to play anymore.

There are legit places a .338 Lapua or large .338 have a niche. I don't take that away...But for what 90% of the people in the lower 48 hunt, there is no need for such a weapon. And even of that 10% that do have the need, I'd say 85% of those hunters don't have the skillset to reach a shooting distance to ever need anything more than a .300 WinMag.

In Alabama, unless you're an oddball like me, and you have a caliber larger than a 7mm RemMag you will never reach its full potential. I intentionally hunt powerlines, and wide-open areas where I can shoot LR, because I have the weapons to do so. To most around here a 200 yard shot on a whitetail is considered a "long ways away". I dropped 2 this year in 2 shots without thinking twice, between 175-225 yards. I didn't even compensate...It was point, click, drop... Most hunters around here would never think of doing that. They'd try to draw them in closer.

 

[bigngreen]

I would imagine the .338 would make a substantial mess, then again, so will anything if the shot hits the wrong place.

There's people who drop moose inside of 500 yards with .25-06's with 1 shot. Shot placement is EVERYTHING. Brute power is important with large game, but it is not all there is to a successful hunt. Ask the member on here (can't ever remember his name) who dropped a monster moose with 1 shot @ 9xx yards with a plain ole' 7mm RemMag.

Also, my gunsmith has been smithing for 25+ years (machining for much longer than that), and he builds benchrest rifles that will put 5 in the SAME hole @ 200 yards. I've seen his trophies and his targets. I've also seen how he makes my rifles shoot with a worked factory barrel on them.

He won't own a .338 Lapua. He built simself and a couple clients one, using custom actions, Krieger barrls, and McMillan stocks. All 3 of them couldn't get any of the rifles to group better than 5/8" @ 100 yards. He said average was barely under 1" groups on a no-wind day with perfect conditions using Lapua brass, Lapua bullets, and whatever model Vihtavuori powder.

He'll build you one...But he won't guarantee accuracy.

That's not why I don't like them, I disliked them long before I used the gunsmith. But seeing how he can make my factory barreled guns shoot 1/8 and 1/4 MOA groups @ 100 yards, I take his word for it.

The meat damage tends to be the opposite of what your thinking, we see very little meat damage from our 338's!

Shot placement is the exact point a lot of us are trying to make, I'll argue shot placement all day long as apposed to trying to muscle your way through to some vitals BUT if your shooting in strong or variable winds you simply can not replace a big high BC bullet for helping you keep that shot placement where you need it. I've shot antelope at normal ranges with a big 338 simply because I needed every advantage possible to make a good clean kill in some harsh conditions, another day I'd just pop them with a 22-250.
Last season we were taking some elk out of a herd at a decent range, it was inside my range with my smaller cals but the wind was starting to die then gust as it does in the mountains here as the sun goes down so we pulled out the 338's and laid some elk down, ya we miss the wind a little but we knew we would and by how much and the 338 still kept us in the kill zone where a smaller cal would not have.

Your smith not being able to get a 338 to shoot only tells us he does not know how to build or load a 338 and instead of learning he'll just bad mouth them so he does not have to build one, it has ZERO to do with the 338 or Lapua case. I don't know anyone who shoots a 338 for groups at a 100 yards, a mile+ that's mostly what you'll see!! The last group I shot with a 338 Lapua AI at 1500 yards you could cover 4 rounds with your with the palm of your hand which the last time I checked was well under 5/8ths of an MOA!! I've watch Broz hold half moa or better with his Terminator well beyond 2000 yards, that is well under 5/8ths MOA.

You can actually have your cake and eat it to with a 338, I run the 300's from my RUM's at 2800 fps OR I run the 250 Berger at 3100 fps which is fast, flat and Thors hammer to boot!!

 

[nwcp]

I have a .338 WinMag in a BAR and find it accurate and the recoil manageable. The .338 will put anything in the lower 48 down with no problem and at long range if required. It has it's place in a gun safe, but I find myself grabbing my .308, or 25-06 for the majority of my hunting. I've fired a friends 7mm a few times and wasn't overly impressed, but then I've never owned one and have only shot it a few times at the range. Depending on what you will be hunting the majority of the time, the range and wind conditions the .338 has enough bullet selection that you can use it on a variety of game without tearing the meat up. Just place your shot right. I generally use the .308 for most game with good results. I use the 25-06 and 6.8 SPCII for varmint and predator hunting. JMHO

 

[FEENIX]

The meat damage tends to be the opposite of what your thinking, we see very little meat damage from our 338's!

Shot placement is the exact point a lot of us are trying to make, I'll argue shot placement all day long as apposed to trying to muscle your way through to some vitals BUT if your shooting in strong or variable winds you simply can not replace a big high BC bullet for helping you keep that shot placement where you need it. I've shot antelope at normal ranges with a big 338 simply because I needed every advantage possible to make a good clean kill in some harsh conditions, another day I'd just pop them with a 22-250.
Last season we were taking some elk out of a herd at a decent range, it was inside my range with my smaller cals but the wind was starting to die then gust as it does in the mountains here as the sun goes down so we pulled out the 338's and laid some elk down, ya we miss the wind a little but we knew we would and by how much and the 338 still kept us in the kill zone where a smaller cal would not have.

Your smith not being able to get a 338 to shoot only tells us he does not know how to build or load a 338 and instead of learning he'll just bad mouth them so he does not have to build one, it has ZERO to do with the 338 or Lapua case. I don't know anyone who shoots a 338 for groups at a 100 yards, a mile+ that's mostly what you'll see!! The last group I shot with a 338 Lapua AI at 1500 yards you could cover 4 rounds with your with the palm of your hand which the last time I checked was well under 5/8ths of an MOA!! I've watch Broz hold half moa or better with his Terminator well beyond 2000 yards, that is well under 5/8ths MOA.

You can actually have your cake and eat it to with a 338, I run the 300's from my RUM's at 2800 fps OR I run the 250 Berger at 3100 fps which is fast, flat and Thors hammer to boot!!

Well said Rhian! I've always enjoyed you and Jeff's adventures.