I Hate Hammer Bullets!

[skipglo]

We have fanatics, I agree. Do you hate Ford because they have fanatics? I get getting tired of the guy at work who loves his new Ford pickup so much that it dominates his discussions. If that makes you hate Ford then you will likely only ever use products that have luke warm support.

I hope this makes sense? Not liking or avoiding a product because there is people that avidly support that product seems illogical.

You asked WHY....if you don't like the answer then don't like it! I ..lol was going to use FORD...and I drive one!. It would be best served if any further discussions on Hammer went to YOUR WEBSITE for awhile perhaps instead of here. Just my humble opinion. Just like the Guy at work as you stated.

 

[Korhil78]

You asked WHY....if you don't like the answer then don't like it! I ..lol was going to use FORD...and I drive one!. It would be best served if any further discussions on Hammer went to YOUR WEBSITE for awhile perhaps instead of here. Just my humble opinion. Just like the Guy at work as you stated.

Well what if some of us on this website preferred you to take your discussions to another site? You gonna leave?? He is a paying Sponsor on this website so I would say he does more for this site than you or I do.

And no..I'm not a fanatic. I have shot hammers in one rifle and I still struggle with going back to bergers because I shoot at extended ranges.

And no I don't want you to go elsewhere lol.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

OP…. When open discussion is not an option frustration leads to "less productive" communication. In other words, when a group controls or entirely dominates the conversation folks will lash out.
Steve, you missed the mark…it ISN'T the bullets, it IS the marketing.

I think I understand you too be saying that word of mouth marketing should not be allowed? I get that you don't like how some people promote our product. We do not have anyone on a mass marketing staff signed to go out on forums to sing the praises of Hammer Bullets. This is the only forum that we have paid for the privilege to advertise. Other than our own forum we do not frequent other forums. I understand there is positive feedback on all kinds of forums out there.

I'm not sure how to take your statement. It sounds like you think Hammer Bullets should try to suppress our customers from publicly commenting. Or somehow limiting them to doing it in a way that meets the approval of you or whoever gets offended by them. This sounds a lot like what antifa does. They want to silence everyone that says anything that they deem unacceptable. I am sure that my comparison here is over the top of what you actually think but the parallel is very easy to draw and would be the same result if somehow policed to get the outcome that you would like.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

You asked WHY....if you don't like the answer then don't like it! I ..lol was going to use FORD...and I drive one!. It would be best served if any further discussions on Hammer went to YOUR WEBSITE for awhile perhaps instead of here. Just my humble opinion. Just like the Guy at work as you stated.

So in your humble opinion discussion of Hammer Bullets should be banned from this forum? Interesting. Any other products? I've seen Sherman products mentioned?

 

[Earnhardt]

Steve...I don't believe anybody "hates" Hammers, I know I certainly don't.

What people hate, is how literally every single bullet thread/question turns into a Hammer bullet thread by the same couple posters.

This thread is going to turn into the same as the Sherman bashing thread...I would recommend deleting it now.

Winner, winner…chicken dinner…
In our shooting hobby all bullets are a good thing
But yes, as stated above, IT SEEMS that every bullet thread turns into a Hammer Bullet thread
I get it, the guys who use them have had great success with them.
The owner (OP) is a contributor to this website, probably in more ways that we know…

But…if a thread starts out as a Berger/Hornady/Speer…bullet thread let's keep it that way

Enough of the shilling for Hammer Bullets in a thread that started out about another bullet.

yes we get it…his bullets work great, you're friends with the owner, he seems like a great guy, and he benefits financially from your posts threads if they sell his bullets.

At least the Hammer Bullet threads seem believable, with the results that are being posted…
they dont end up with some astronomically high numbers, with extremely heavy bullets that can only be achieved by the one person…We all know who/what I'm talking about…Enough of the BS/borderline dangerous pressures/velocities that are being posted…we want/deserve Pressure Trace Data or don't post data that can only be attained by you…please)

yes Hammer bullets seem to work great…
But enough of the Shilling fellas…please

 

[RamTruckMan]

We have fanatics, I agree. Do you hate Ford because they have fanatics?

If Ford Fanatics always hopped on a thread about chevy or ram pickups and took it over and picked fights, I would grow to hate ford. Over enough time, any reasonable person would come to despise those people and the product motivating the behavior. Its annoying, nobody likes people like that.

It would be even worse if those same ford fanatics hopped on threads about ferrari's or lambo's and tried to push their product.
That is what you have going on at LRH. Same handful of guys. This isn't just one person and it doesn't happen every once in a while. It happens all of the time. They push and defend them on threads where it doesnt even make sense…people are just scratching their heads. Which is why you are starting to see people get sick of it. Even long time members here.

A few threads get posted about other mono bullet offerings and your boys are confused wondering what is going on like this is hammertime. And it bothers you so much that you have to start this thread.

Might as well change the name from Len's Long Range Hunting to Steve and Friends Hammer Bullets.

This non sense doesnt happen on 24hourcampfire, Rokslide, Snipershide or any other hunting or shooting forum. It is 100% unique to LRH.

 

[skipglo]

Well what if some of us on this website preferred you to take your discussions to another site? You gonna leave?? He is a paying Sponsor on this website so I would say he does more for this site than you or I do.

And no..I'm not a fanatic. I have shot hammers in one rifle and I still struggle with going back to bergers because I shoot at extended ranges.

And I'm a paying member! What's your point? I didn't start the conversation...Steve did. He asked WHY....we are responding. I don't MAKE MONEY HERE PAYING TO BE HERE! I want the SITE TO REMAIN OPEN! Edit: And I see you're here for free! Enjoy the threads....committ to nothing!

 

[Korhil78]

My point was he pays to advertise his bullets here lol. He has a right to do so. You are paying to keep the site open out of the kindness of your heart. I get that.

 

[Korhil78]

And I'm a paying member! What's your point? I didn't start the conversation...Steve did. He asked WHY....we are responding. I don't MAKE MONEY HERE PAYING TO BE HERE! I want the SITE TO REMAIN OPEN! Edit: And I see you're here for free! Enjoy the threads....committ to nothing!

I do enjoy it immensely. Thank you. And you don't know me or what I do so basing what I commit to off of a website is awesome.

 

[LRNut]

I think I understand you too be saying that word of mouth marketing should not be allowed? I get that you don't like how some people promote our product. We do not have anyone on a mass marketing staff signed to go out on forums to sing the praises of Hammer Bullets. This is the only forum that we have paid for the privilege to advertise. Other than our own forum we do not frequent other forums. I understand there is positive feedback on all kinds of forums out there.

I'm not sure how to take your statement. It sounds like you think Hammer Bullets should try to suppress our customers from publicly commenting. Or somehow limiting them to doing it in a way that meets the approval of you or whoever gets offended by them. This sounds a lot like what antifa does. They want to silence everyone that says anything that they deem unacceptable. I am sure that my comparison here is over the top of what you actually think but the parallel is very easy to draw and would be the same result if somehow policed to get the outcome that you would like.

I bought two boxes of Hammers for one of my 28Ns. I haven't shot them yet, but I will. I bought them because so many people raved about them, including ButterBean. Heck, he and I disagree on many things (I hate beam scales for example), but if he swears by them, I figured I was a fool for at least not trying them.

As for the cost, it is negligible in the big scheme of things. If the cost really deters you from using them, you need to spend less time on LRH and figure out a way to make more money.

 

[Dirtrax]

I think I understand you too be saying that word of mouth marketing should not be allowed? I get that you don't like how some people promote our product. We do not have anyone on a mass marketing staff signed to go out on forums to sing the praises of Hammer Bullets. This is the only forum that we have paid for the privilege to advertise. Other than our own forum we do not frequent other forums. I understand there is positive feedback on all kinds of forums out there.

I'm not sure how to take your statement. It sounds like you think Hammer Bullets should try to suppress our customers from publicly commenting. Or somehow limiting them to doing it in a way that meets the approval of you or whoever gets offended by them. This sounds a lot like what antifa does. They want to silence everyone that says anything that they deem unacceptable. I am sure that my comparison here is over the top of what you actually think but the parallel is very easy to draw and would be the same result if somehow policed to get the outcome that you would like.

Word of mouth is good until it isn't. It's a beast you have no control over. From a purely business perspective marketing is mother's milk. Put another way your "brand" defines you. Protect it well. You have done great job of bringing to market a product that fills a niche. Many others occupy the same space though so only you can decide where to go from here. I will say you have b@lls opening yourself to such scrutiny. Take the opportunity and run with it. I for one wish you success.
BTW you got the ANTIFA reference backwards, it is your supporter's that are silencing open discourse.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

One thing I dislike is lack of load data-- specifically for the absolute hunters. I know there is a document where people are sharing their load data but I honestly do not trust non-professional load data from someone I do not know. I would love to see something official from Hammer Bullets to make me feel confident in starting a load. Just saying they use faster powders and need experienced loaders who can recognize pressure signs makes me nervous. I consider myself a fairly experienced loader but I don't necessarily feel confident in using powders where there are not established starting loads for a certain caliber. This has deterred me from purchasing the absolute hunters.
I realize that there is liability in releasing load data and this is probably the reason there is nothing "official" as a resource that we can use. But to offer constructive criticism, this is something I would love to see coming from Hammer in the future.

I have had mixed results in emailing for load data help. The first time I purchased Hammer Hunters I emailed for load help and got a response right away. It impressed me and I thought I might as well do this for some other calibers I load for. I have now emailed for help two other times without a response at all. Not sure if they are overwhelmed with questions or do not want the liability? I have a couple of boxes of absolutes that I have not tried because I did not get a response and the caliber I shoot had no representation for the bullet weight I purchased on the document where people are sharing load data.

Also-- it might be a good idea to put a little insert into the bullet box letting people know about the vapor trail. I was a little concerned the first time I did load work up for my dads 6.5CM and every shot had a vapor trail. The previous HH I shot did not do that. I had to go and research online to find out what was going on. Not everyone that buys these bullets follows you guys closely on forums and they may also feel like there is a problem if they are unprepared?

I am not sure if my post lives up to the OP's request. I have no dislike for Hammer Bullets. My goal here was to offer constructive criticism to help show areas where consumers feel like we need more support. If you make it easier for people to buy your product by supporting their needs, you business will keep growing. Or at least stay in business so we continue to have the bullets we have come to appreciate.

This is fresh! Legitimate points.

We just started work on creating published Hammer load data. This data will concentrate on Shock Hammers and Hammer Hunters. Once that is done then we will work on the Absolutes. They are kinda like working with a wildcat cartridge. They are easier in some cartridges than others.

I do not avoid emails. I certainly miss some now and then. For that I apologize. Usually happens after we go hunting and I miss some in the process of catching up.

That is an interesting point on the vapor trail. Or Hammer Trail as we have been recently calling it.

One thing I dislike is lack of load data-- specifically for the absolute hunters. I know there is a document where people are sharing their load data but I honestly do not trust non-professional load data from someone I do not know. I would love to see something official from Hammer Bullets to make me feel confident in starting a load. Just saying they use faster powders and need experienced loaders who can recognize pressure signs makes me nervous. I consider myself a fairly experienced loader but I don't necessarily feel confident in using powders where there are not established starting loads for a certain caliber. This has deterred me from purchasing the absolute hunters.
I realize that there is liability in releasing load data and this is probably the reason there is nothing "official" as a resource that we can use. But to offer constructive criticism, this is something I would love to see coming from Hammer in the future.

I have had mixed results in emailing for load data help. The first time I purchased Hammer Hunters I emailed for load help and got a response right away. It impressed me and I thought I might as well do this for some other calibers I load for. I have now emailed for help two other times without a response at all. Not sure if they are overwhelmed with questions or do not want the liability? I have a couple of boxes of absolutes that I have not tried because I did not get a response and the caliber I shoot had no representation for the bullet weight I purchased on the document where people are sharing load data.

Also-- it might be a good idea to put a little insert into the bullet box letting people know about the vapor trail. I was a little concerned the first time I did load work up for my dads 6.5CM and every shot had a vapor trail. The previous HH I shot did not do that. I had to go and research online to find out what was going on. Not everyone that buys these bullets follows you guys closely on forums and they may also feel like there is a problem if they are unprepared?

I am not sure if my post lives up to the OP's request. I have no dislike for Hammer Bullets. My goal here was to offer constructive criticism to help show areas where consumers feel like we need more support. If you make it easier for people to buy your product by supporting their needs, you business will keep growing. Or at least stay in business so we continue to have the bullets we have come to appreciate.

This is fresh! Legitimate criticism.

We have just begun the process of creating Hammer load data. We will concentrate on the Hammer Hunters and Shock Hammers first. Once they are done then we will look at the Absolutes.

We don't avoid answering any emails. If your emails were missed it is my fault. I try to answer them daily and spend most of my day doing so. When we go hunting I fall behind and I know I have missed some in the effort to catch up on them when we come back from hunting trips. I'm sorry for letting yours slip through the cracks.

We will talk about your idea of a note with the bullets about the vapor trail. Our was we have recently dubbed it the Hammer Trail!

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Theres some real tools on here I tell ya

 

[RockyMtnMT]

There ya go, every other bullet is crappy. Nothing dropped dead before Hammer Bullets. It was expected that I'd shoot a buck and still be tracking it until Tuesday. Same ole song and dance. Read the OP's request. It gets SO annoying that every bullet/loading thread becomes a Hammer Bullet pep rally. Especially when satisfied customers were specifically asked not to comment.
You can throw darts at me on several other threads. Try the one on coyotes.

You are right I asked supporters not to defend me. I wanted to keep this thread to me and those who don't like Hammer Bullets. His post did make me laugh though. I'm pretty sure it was a joke. I don't think he said no bullets worked before Hammers. He did get you bent pretty easy though.