I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocked)

[pablo]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

Check out what Terry Cross has done with the 260, and the 260 AI, both of these cartridges would do what you are looking to do,and they are based on the good ole 308 case. We know what you think of those.

 

[Alfred Crouch]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

Pablo, Can you give me a link as to where I might find the data on the 260 you are referring to? Thanks.

Most everything I have read about the 260 has been favorable ... enough so that I now have one and am working with it. I will post my opinion and info related to my work with it later after I have had enough experience to form an opinion.

Am eagerly awaiting Michaels comments about his experience with the 7-08. Would like to see him work some with the 260 as well. It's ballistics sure look good. Am interested to see if all the good ballistic data translates into good field experiences. Many others have found it to be an impressive round and continue to post remarks about having good experiences with it.

 

[6BR4ME2]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

First and foremost its great that you have "owned" with your 308...... good job

I mean look at the barrel life and the inherent accuracy of the 308 enough said

however I shoot the 6.5x284 and like yourself HATE recoil as well as much as I shoot its just not a good thing at all the 6.5x284 is not bad at all in the recoil area

you have to shoot it single shot ( in a short action with long bullets) so take a real hard look at a .260 in a fast twist shooting a high BC 140 bullet and Boo Hah you have something that will be a pleasure to shoot and help you out in the long range windy situations

Good luck

 

[Michael Eichele]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

In regards to the 260, I am very interested in it from a match standpoint due to its 140 class loads that offer very high BC's and very low recoil.

From a hunting standpoint, I can run the 162 AMAX out of the 284 bore at the same speeds as the 140 AMAX out of the 264 bore due to the larger burn area of the bore. The 162 offers not only a higher BC but more weight and mass than the 140 class loads for the 260. For paper, this is of no concern. For hunting sheep and coues bucks at 800+ yards, it is of much concern. That said, for hunting I am not really interested in the 260 remmy.

On another note, having toyed around with the 208 AMAX a bit more has opened up even more questions for me. Having run them as high as 2725 FPS and at peak accuracy at 2675, it begs the question of whether or not I am going to go with the 708/162. The retained energy down range using the 208 along with slightly less wind drift is pretty appealing. Granted the recoil is noticable higher, it is quite manageable for a hunting rifle. If I were going the match route, I would go 708/162 AMAX or 260/140 VLD without question.

I guess I find myself confused again as often happens in this sport. It is impossible to ever find the perfect round/load yet we never give up hope of finding this very thing............I know most of you can relate.

 

[Alfred Crouch]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

Michael,
I certainly undertand your concern and I agree.

"From a hunting standpoint, I can run the 162 AMAX out of the 284 bore at the same speeds as the 140 AMAX out of the 264 bore due to the larger burn area of the bore. The 162 offers not only a higher BC but more weight and mass than the 140 class loads for the 260. For paper, this is of no concern. For hunting sheep and coues bucks at 800+ yards, it is of much concern."

800 yards would stretch the 260 for hunting. I hunt in the eastern US and 300 to 400 yard shots are long shots here. For my ranges I consider the 260 very adequate, low recoil and very pleasant to shoot so it appeals to me for my use. For your huting needs I would be interested in the 284 bullet as well but I believe you would need more than a 7-08 to launch it for maximum effectiveness at that range .... like maybe a 7mm SAUM if 800 to 850 yards were your max range or a 7 Rem mag if you wanted to get beyond the 800 yard distance.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

Running 168's out of my 308's I have been known to dispatch a dall ram or two between 700 and 800 yards cleanly. That said, I believe that there is not a coues buck or dall ram on the planet that the 162 7mm bullet even at 708 speeds wouldnt take care of at 800 or 850 yards as the energy and wind drift of the 162 outperforms ANY 168 grain 30 cal. Remember that both of those critters (which is what this project will be geared for) live at 5000+ feet in elevation (or at least where I hunt them) and fairly warm seasons. The thinner air really does let them sail a fair bit. Much more than near sea level. At 5000' the 162 is still well over 1000 foot pounds at 850 yards. More than enough for either of these thin skinned light boned critters. I personaly dont feel the need for a 284 magnum, at least not for these two critters. I would rather have better barrel life so I can shoot it alot more than if it was a magnum of sorts.

 

[pablo]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

Alfred, I think I found the Terry Cross article on 6mmbr.com, their is also an interesting article about the equipment and calibers at the 2009 NBRSA 600 yd. Nationals held at Sacramento. Think the highest placing, non local, shooter was shooting a 260 AI.
In the late 70s I shot 308's in NBRSA Hunter Rifle class. At that time I hunted with a 284 Winchester chambered bolt gun. I would never take the 308 hunting when I had a 284 in the rack. It's downrange performance was so superior to the 308 that I only thought of the 308 as a fairly accurate score shooting rifle. When I read about people hunting with the 308 in this day and time when there are many superior alternatives I am frankly shocked. I shoot a 6.5 284 and recently built my 11 year old son a 260AI for his first big game rifle. The 260 AI is a little pickey to load, it likes what it likes. My sons rifle likes any bullet with the correct amount of Hybrid 100v. This is unlike my experience with the old 308.
If I were you Micheal and wanted a long range (800 yd. plus) sheep and deer killer I would probably build a straight 284. I will loan you the reamers and headspace gauges.

 

[Alfred Crouch]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

Pablo, Thanks very much. I will check it out. I am excited abut my 260 and enjoying working with it. Haven't had enough experience with it yet to know if it will meet all my expectations or not. All of the favorable info I have read has caused me to have high expectations. Of ourse I don't expect an 800 yard "vaporizer" out of it. I know it has range limitations which are fully within my expected range of usage ..... hope to probably work up to 600, 700 or so yards on white tail.

 

[dwm]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

Michael Eichele, how is the 708 working out?

 

[rdsii64]

Re: I almost cant bring myself to say it. Turning to the darkside (you will be shocke

For anybody that knows me or even pays attention to many of my posts knows that I am the 308 winnies biggest fan. Dont get me wrong, I still love it and will continue to use it for much of my hunting and shooting needs.

However, I feel as if I could improve some how when it comes to really long range dall sheep and coues bucks. Let's face it, they are small targets that live in breezy enviornments.......... Now, I see myself as a shooter that does a fair job of judging, calling and doping the wind. However, I seem to have drawn the line on these critters at 700-800 yards due to their small size and enviornment and the windage capabilities of my hunting loads. I just dont feel comfortable outside that range with the tools I am currently using for game.........I have a bigger and heavier tool. The 338 Edge. For the most part, I really dont want to pack that rifle around for sheep even though it is VERY light for it's caliber. I would be happy to pack it in the back country for an elk hunt or a moose hunt but not for sheep.

This past season I developed 'tennis elbow' from lugging both the 308 and the 338 around in the back country. This was VERY painfull (it sucks getting old) and it has just now gone away. So that got me thinking that it is time to lighten up my 308. Since I believe that the scope base is too important to try and lighten up I looked to other items. The only thing I was left with was the barrel. I initially thought about getting a sporter contour. After some thought I realized that I would have to get a new stock too since using a spaggetti barrel with a stock inletted for a sendero would just be laughable. I dont want a new stock. This left me with one other option. That is to get another ABS barrel. It will be in sendero contour to fit my stock and will reduce some excess weight. Due to Mike D's stand up services, I feel comfortable with buying another one. It will be a Rock Creek 5R.

Now for the shocker..........

I initially decided to go with another 308. After some inner wars, I decided to turn to the dark side. I am going 7mm....................7mm08 for my sheep and coues deer.

You do realize that a 180 grain vld 7mm bullet has a BC of .615. If you are the .308's #1 fan I'm the #2 fan. all that being said, you can't argue with a bullet that has BC of over.6 and a case with enough room to push it close to 2650 FPS. top it off with mild recoil and critters in your area should be VERY AFRAID.