I’m always busy at the wrong time…for SCIENCE!!!😡🤣. Anyone ever shoot at these temps and get chrono numbers?

Must be a Sask boy thing but I'll take -40 over +40 any day, can dress warmer and move faster if needed.!
Tried 2 years ago to chrono some loads at -35 but could not get 35P to work, set the chrono on the dash in the heat but could not get consistent reads on speeds or consistently pick up shots. I wonder if angle on sun is a problem at that time of year? I have a Labradar now so maybe will try it again.
 
I would love to see this range of results even if it's by PM if you don't mind sharing.
Last winter I made arrangements to use a range that would allow us to use steel targets the facility had that went out to 2480 yards. Rare in Wisconsin, I was lucky.

I had just finished up the load development on my friends 375 FU in which is a 375 Snipetac that had its shoulder set back 150 thou in order to #1 get rid of wasted case capacity that was not being filled with RL33 or RL50 powder. #2 being this rifle also had a Mag used at times we wanted to be able to use the higher BC bullets and still have them fit in the Mag.
The results of this was less powder could be used with a gain in speed compared to the standard 375 Snipetac which made it more efficient. But we still are close on the rounds fitting the Mag with the 361 grain Flat line solid - they fit but are close.
During my load development using the RL50 and running at 50 thou off the lands I found the sweet spot I was looking for at 100 yards doing a grid test checking speed and impact points. I wanted to shoot at say 500 to 800 yards in my back yard but that was not happing with work issues prior to heading to the facility.

My goal at the facility was to
#1 see how accurate the 361s were at distance.
#2 see what happens with bullet stability as it travels through transonic & subsonic
#3 see how the estimated BC on the bullet printed at distance and adjust if needed
#4 leave there with confidence in grouping and a very good BC number that works in the ballistic program.

It was dang cold negative - 22 degrees F. Yielding a Density Altitude of a negative - 4218 DA - very thick air.

First off they wanted me to confirm I could hit at a 1000 before moving to the 2480 yard plate.
I set up the Lab Radar and fired a cold bore 1st round shot at the plate the flasher went off on the target confirming a hit, so I held the same and fired a follow up.
My cold bore shot and the follow up were 3 fps different which was good.
They came back from inspecting the target and said my group was 6" high above the painted dot on the plate and both impacts were 2" apart. So I was good to move to another range for the 2480.

So prior to sending any rounds at 2480 yards I knew my speeds were very consistent at the 1000 and at home. So I went into my program and started to tweak the BC number higher a little until it had me dialing 6" of less correction.

Note during the testing this day I kept the ammo temp at 78 degrees and only grabbed the test rounds needed before getting behind the rifle in order to keep some consistency in the test.

At the 2480 we had slight 5 mph winds on and off at either 6:00 behind us or at 4:00 at our side you could see the shift in the wind by watching the mirage thru the scope and we shot 3 round groups in the same wind conditions to see if the bullets were grouping respectable as well if there was any instability starting to show because of the bullet slowing down enough in the thick air to see what effects were happening towards the end in transonic flight.

Group sizes on the plate or in the snow close to the plate were very respectable at that distance out the the 12 rounds fired there 4 groups of 3 shots group sized very from 9" to 15" when waiting to take advantage of the winds and in a relaxed day of shooting, not under pressure.

The groups shot with the 3-4:00 wind which normal should be impacting higher versus a 6:00 wind were actually impacting 16" lower, we concluded that the tail wind which a lot of times pushes down some actually pushed the bullet some and the bullet maintained speed longer.

The speeds still were in a nice zone
The BC number I tweaked in the program held true at distance
The bullet grouped very well at both distances
when shooting at the 2480 it was great to see the bullet went through transonic and into subsonic very well and didn't start going in different directions.

The best part is we were able to get into that transonic - subsonic zone and see what the bullet was doing without having the wind, human error all the things that would distort testing results when shooting in normal temps where the bullet would be going in those zones at 3500 yards.

We used the Lab Radar with a battery charge pack and with the rifle located directly under the Lab Radar eliminating any disturbances from gasses and smoke.

The rifle a McCree chassis, Stiller action, Vortex Razor Gen II and a Bartlien barrel showed zero issues or strange things happening while sitting out in the sub zero temp during the day while there. The only thing that was managed as far as keeping warm was the ammo in order to get a good test.

I would of PMed all this but a few asked to see this here

osoh
 
🤔🥴
That's one of many things why I enjoy being here....... folks always thinking, (unlike so much of the rest of the world)!👍
I'll take that as a compliment good sir! Though I must confess, the list of productive things I should be doing or thinking about doesn't have "contemplate the properties of polymers at blistering speeds in stupidly cold weather" anywhere on it haha
 
Last winter I made arrangements to use a range that would allow us to use steel targets the facility had that went out to 2480 yards. Rare in Wisconsin, I was lucky.

I had just finished up the load development on my friends 375 FU in which is a 375 Snipetac that had its shoulder set back 150 thou in order to #1 get rid of wasted case capacity that was not being filled with RL33 or RL50 powder. #2 being this rifle also had a Mag used at times we wanted to be able to use the higher BC bullets and still have them fit in the Mag.
The results of this was less powder could be used with a gain in speed compared to the standard 375 Snipetac which made it more efficient. But we still are close on the rounds fitting the Mag with the 361 grain Flat line solid - they fit but are close.
During my load development using the RL50 and running at 50 thou off the lands I found the sweet spot I was looking for at 100 yards doing a grid test checking speed and impact points. I wanted to shoot at say 500 to 800 yards in my back yard but that was not happing with work issues prior to heading to the facility.

My goal at the facility was to
#1 see how accurate the 361s were at distance.
#2 see what happens with bullet stability as it travels through transonic & subsonic
#3 see how the estimated BC on the bullet printed at distance and adjust if needed
#4 leave there with confidence in grouping and a very good BC number that works in the ballistic program.

It was dang cold negative - 22 degrees F. Yielding a Density Altitude of a negative - 4218 DA - very thick air.

First off they wanted me to confirm I could hit at a 1000 before moving to the 2480 yard plate.
I set up the Lab Radar and fired a cold bore 1st round shot at the plate the flasher went off on the target confirming a hit, so I held the same and fired a follow up.
My cold bore shot and the follow up were 3 fps different which was good.
They came back from inspecting the target and said my group was 6" high above the painted dot on the plate and both impacts were 2" apart. So I was good to move to another range for the 2480.

So prior to sending any rounds at 2480 yards I knew my speeds were very consistent at the 1000 and at home. So I went into my program and started to tweak the BC number higher a little until it had me dialing 6" of less correction.

Note during the testing this day I kept the ammo temp at 78 degrees and only grabbed the test rounds needed before getting behind the rifle in order to keep some consistency in the test.

At the 2480 we had slight 5 mph winds on and off at either 6:00 behind us or at 4:00 at our side you could see the shift in the wind by watching the mirage thru the scope and we shot 3 round groups in the same wind conditions to see if the bullets were grouping respectable as well if there was any instability starting to show because of the bullet slowing down enough in the thick air to see what effects were happening towards the end in transonic flight.

Group sizes on the plate or in the snow close to the plate were very respectable at that distance out the the 12 rounds fired there 4 groups of 3 shots group sized very from 9" to 15" when waiting to take advantage of the winds and in a relaxed day of shooting, not under pressure.

The groups shot with the 3-4:00 wind which normal should be impacting higher versus a 6:00 wind were actually impacting 16" lower, we concluded that the tail wind which a lot of times pushes down some actually pushed the bullet some and the bullet maintained speed longer.

The speeds still were in a nice zone
The BC number I tweaked in the program held true at distance
The bullet grouped very well at both distances
when shooting at the 2480 it was great to see the bullet went through transonic and into subsonic very well and didn't start going in different directions.

The best part is we were able to get into that transonic - subsonic zone and see what the bullet was doing without having the wind, human error all the things that would distort testing results when shooting in normal temps where the bullet would be going in those zones at 3500 yards.

We used the Lab Radar with a battery charge pack and with the rifle located directly under the Lab Radar eliminating any disturbances from gasses and smoke.

The rifle a McCree chassis, Stiller action, Vortex Razor Gen II and a Bartlien barrel showed zero issues or strange things happening while sitting out in the sub zero temp during the day while there. The only thing that was managed as far as keeping warm was the ammo in order to get a good test.

I would of PMed all this but a few asked to see this here

osoh
I have also thought about shortening a snipetac. Im looking to rid the case of wasted space (maybe prevent the rumored hang fires) and mag feed the heavy bullets up to the 400gr MTH/Lazer (2.209" and 2.290" respectively) and the heavy hammer bullets: 395gr @ 2.180" and maybe, but it's pushing it, the 411gr @ 2.300". With shortening the body .150" you said the long 361gr @ 2.200" was just short of your max mag OAL so I may shorten the case by ~.175" also were you using the standard cheytac mags or the new slightly longer cadex mags? If you were using the older mags then a new COAL would be allowed at 4.625" and I dont think id have to shorten the case much more.

About the ballistics- you said that shortening the body gained velocity over the standard snipetac. Did you mean to say standard cheytac or was there an actual velocity increase as you shortened the case. I guess it makes sense if you use the same amount of powder and cut down the case, therefore increasing pressure. Do you recall any of the numbers? Actual velocity, barrel length, any data of 400gr bullets or did you just use the 361gr.

Any info you could give would be greatly appreciated
 
I have also thought about shortening a snipetac. Im looking to rid the case of wasted space (maybe prevent the rumored hang fires) and mag feed the heavy bullets up to the 400gr MTH/Lazer (2.209" and 2.290" respectively) and the heavy hammer bullets: 395gr @ 2.180" and maybe, but it's pushing it, the 411gr @ 2.300". With shortening the body .150" you said the long 361gr @ 2.200" was just short of your max mag OAL so I may shorten the case by ~.175" also were you using the standard cheytac mags or the new slightly longer cadex mags? If you were using the older mags then a new COAL would be allowed at 4.625" and I dont think id have to shorten the case much more.

About the ballistics- you said that shortening the body gained velocity over the standard snipetac. Did you mean to say standard cheytac or was there an actual velocity increase as you shortened the case. I guess it makes sense if you use the same amount of powder and cut down the case, therefore increasing pressure. Do you recall any of the numbers? Actual velocity, barrel length, any data of 400gr bullets or did you just use the 361gr.

Any info you could give would be greatly appreciated
In reference it would be the increase in efficiency compared to what we were running - the Snipetac, got rid of the wasted air space and made it more efficient. Less powder and better speed. We only ran the 361s through it. It was a good move.
 
Here in MT we get 100+ days in the summer and we had -20 in the barn the other week.
I went and shot my 6.5-300 in 2 degrees around then as I had to sight in my new 338RPM anyway.
I got 3310fps from the 6.5-300. Usually in late summer / early fall I get 3380fps with 130gr Scirocco factory loads.
I did already know about the 1-2fps per degree of temp rule, this confirmed it. Obviously there are other factors such as humidity, pressure etc. (elevation was the same), but 1-2fps per degree isn't a bad rule of thumb.
 
Here in MT we get 100+ days in the summer and we had -20 in the barn the other week.
I went and shot my 6.5-300 in 2 degrees around then as I had to sight in my new 338RPM anyway.
I got 3310fps from the 6.5-300. Usually in late summer / early fall I get 3380fps with 130gr Scirocco factory loads.
I did already know about the 1-2fps per degree of temp rule, this confirmed it. Obviously there are other factors such as humidity, pressure etc. (elevation was the same), but 1-2fps per degree isn't a bad rule of thumb.
Yep, that's the burn rate of your powder being affected by cold.

It works the other way in 100 degrees, but is not even linear and can get you blown up. I shot some handloads that were developed in 70 degrees in Michigan that shot about 2950 to 3000 fps for 250 gr
.338 Lapua.....same rounds in August in Texas scared me when the chrono said 3400. I quit immediately. That was w RL 26.
On the hot end of the curve, burn rate vs. temperature, the burn rate can turn up exponentially, and is no longer linear.
 
old thread revived. A couple weeks ago it was -6 while out hunting yotes. I killed 2 at 750 and 720 using the same data I use all year and no adjustment for fps/degree. Now I'm not one to enjoy 100 degree heat so I do avoid it but I have and do shoot in 90's occasionally. What I see with high heat is not that there is a linear increase in speed it's that there can be a spike in pressure with upper end hotter loads. Those loads can spike without much warning. Knowing that, I do prefer to confirm a load is good and safe for heat. I've shot some prs and lrp matches in 90-100. That is no place for an issue to show up.
 
old thread revived. A couple weeks ago it was -6 while out hunting yotes. I killed 2 at 750 and 720 using the same data I use all year and no adjustment for fps/degree. Now I'm not one to enjoy 100 degree heat so I do avoid it but I have and do shoot in 90's occasionally. What I see with high heat is not that there is a linear increase in speed it's that there can be a spike in pressure with upper end hotter loads. Those loads can spike without much warning. Knowing that, I do prefer to confirm a load is good and safe for heat. I've shot some prs and lrp matches in 90-100. That is no place for an issue to show up.
Very true…the closer you are to the ragged edge the more likely it is that change of any kind from the original conditions of the load development will be trouble.

I posted not long ago about reverse temp sensitivity with lively discussion to follow, learned a bunch. With a few powders now (8133 and superformance in particular) I've observed that loads I worked up in June were up to 120 fps faster and causing sticky bolts in January. And I'm not alone it turns out.

The fruit of that discussion was a few conclusions

#1 reason has to be the "pixie dust" they put
In temp insensitive powders (or else you WOULD observe this effect with othwr powders too…I do not…rl22 runs about as much slower in January haha)

It has nothing to do with contraction/shrinking the barrel due to cold - UNLESS you've loaded a warm cartridge from your pocket into a frozen rifle haha, a very possible scenario when hunting - but if the bullet and the barrel are both cold it won't cause pressure from a tighter squeeze…in fact a helpful gent on that thread cited data that shows that both copper and lead have higher thermal expansion ratios than steel…to whatever degree the barrel MIGHT shrink, the bullet will MORE.

#2 consideration, though again I don't observe this with most powders so it's not a major factor, was hypothesized by the very knowledgeable Kirby Allen, is that it's not that the barrel constricts, but is more "reluctant" to bend and flex in the extreme cold (as am I 🤣). All materials with any elastic properties lose elasticity with decreasing temperature. We all know about barrel harmonics and how the steel does in fact move during the bullet's transit…in -20 to -50 it really doesn't feel like moving. I can't prove that his theory is correct but it makes very good sense to me
 
Very true…the closer you are to the ragged edge the more likely it is that change of any kind from the original conditions of the load development will be trouble.

I posted not long ago about reverse temp sensitivity with lively discussion to follow, learned a bunch. With a few powders now (8133 and superformance in particular) I've observed that loads I worked up in June were up to 120 fps faster and causing sticky bolts in January. And I'm not alone it turns out.

The fruit of that discussion was a few conclusions

#1 reason has to be the "pixie dust" they put
In temp insensitive powders (or else you WOULD observe this effect with othwr powders too…I do not…rl22 runs about as much slower in January haha)

It has nothing to do with contraction/shrinking the barrel due to cold - UNLESS you've loaded a warm cartridge from your pocket into a frozen rifle haha, a very possible scenario when hunting - but if the bullet and the barrel are both cold it won't cause pressure from a tighter squeeze…in fact a helpful gent on that thread cited data that shows that both copper and lead have higher thermal expansion ratios than steel…to whatever degree the barrel MIGHT shrink, the bullet will MORE.

#2 consideration, though again I don't observe this with most powders so it's not a major factor, was hypothesized by the very knowledgeable Kirby Allen, is that it's not that the barrel constricts, but is more "reluctant" to bend and flex in the extreme cold (as am I 🤣). All materials with any elastic properties lose elasticity with decreasing temperature. We all know about barrel harmonics and how the steel does in fact move during the bullet's transit…in -20 to -50 it really doesn't feel like moving. I can't prove that his theory is correct but it makes very good sense to me
Yeah, and most of us don't care enough to go play in those temps. Now if deployed in a winter condition and your life depends on it, we have a different desire. I'm not hunting in that cold. I've done -10 and it's just not fun for me usually. Understanding what your rifle and ammo does makes sense tho. I see MDT just released a video about testing their chassis system in extreme cold. I've not watched it yet. On the list Of things to do.
 
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