Hunting Rifle MOA Rant

[Alex Wheeler]

A sporter barreled light weight rifle can be made to shoot as well as a heavy barreled rifle. In my experience its more work to find the tune, but when you do they will shoot small just like a heavy barrel.

 

[LongBomber]

I think the level of accuracy depends on what you need the rifle to do. If you are the mythical average hunter that goes to the range, shoots 3-5 shots and says "good enough" they are likely not shooting more than 100 yards at game anyways. For them it wouldn't matter if they had a custom capable of 1/2moa groups or a savage axis with grey box winchester ammo that prints 1.5moa. They are going to put a bullet in the front half of an animal at some unknown distance likely well under 150 yards and it will die. Might flop over, might run 100yards.
If you are serious about shooting, then more accuracy is always better and can be a pursuit in of itself.

I am at the range at least two days a week, so I get to see many people blazing away. I see some of the noted hunters in my area, very successful guys, that shoot groups from a rest on the bench about as good as I can off-hand shoot. (And I am not that good!) They seem happy with how they shoot and go out and have successful hunts.

 

[BountyHunter]

Not 1:1000 rifles manufactured today is capable of .25 MOA no matter how much work you put into load development.

True, consistent .25 MOA is more of a challenge than given credit for. Too many people take the 1 out 25 groups shot and say I have a .25 MOA rifle. Consistentency is not the one best group that cannot be repeated routinely.

 

[ATH]

Really, REALLY depends what "good enough for hunting" means. This is a long range hunting site. If that is what you have in mind, there really isn't a difference between a hunting rifle and a target rifle. My two most accurate rifles are my 284Win F-class Open rifle and my 338 Edge long range hunting rifle, which I have competed with to 2000 yards. They are actually quite close in accuracy, though recoil is another matter.

But if I'm going deer hunting where 100-125 yards is the max range possible, can you make a logical argument that an MOA rifle is not acceptable and I must have a .5 MOA gun? I don't see it. I hunt those places with a 44Mag carbine or a 458 SOCOM. They are roughly MOA guns. And I don't feel bad about it, because if I aim for the heart with an MOA rifle at 75 yards I hit the heart, and a .5 MOA rifle would make no difference.

 

[KyCarl]

Think about this..Is range time really as helpful as "Woods" time?
Learn where you hunt.. Learn what your deer do in different moon phases..Weather conditions..Food sources..Water..Escape routes ..Then those 350 yard shots become
70 yard shots and you pack meat home..Just saying...

 

[HARPERC]

0.5 MOA for how many shots? What time period? What type of setup/accessories?

I'd put myself in both groups, generally trying for more repeatability, and when the time comes accepting what I have, and go hunting.

Most important to me is where that first round goes, a game we play with the kids, is posting archery animal picture targets, put money on the table, and to get the prize only the first shot counts.

My .338 RUM has exactly 1, 0.5", 3 shot group on it. The first 2 in the same hole, #3 tends to be off by itself. Fouls a bit, hasn't liked longer strings, but I've made first round hits on rock chucks to 500 yards, and head shots on steel silhouettes to 800 yards.

I have a .223 that's been an honest 0.25" rifle, late in the day, after several hundred sage rats without cleaning, it's probably scaring 0.5". First round hits past 400 yards much more difficult than the .338 mentioned.

Do we choose the most accurate bullet, or the one best suited to the game at hand even it means giving up a 0.25".

I have a 60 lb benchrest style front rest, adjustable all directions, levels, joystick etc. it will improve groups when I'm not too lazy to put it in the truck, it makes varmint hunts sometimes, big game-not.

MOA can be good enough.

 

[SavageScott]

There's a lot more 1/2 MOA rifles in the world than there are 1/2 MOA shooters...that's where the "good enough" statements come from...

Absolutely.... what he said!^^^^^

 

[lyotehunter]

I don't post on this site very often but I do however read a lot of posts. The one phrase that I just can't seem to get past is, "0.5 MOA is good enough for a hunting rifle." I have to wonder where exactly does this thought process come from? I don't know about you guys but when I shoot an animal I want to hit the left ventricle every time. It doesn't really matter whether it's the buck of a lifetime or just a doe for meat. I have great respect for all of the furry critters in the woods and want them to die quickly and as painlessly as possible. A paper target will never get up and run away wounded. Every rifle I own is a 0.25 MOA or better or it goes down the road. I target shoot with the same exact rifles that I hunt with and I hunt with the same exact loads that I target shoot with. Who wants to take a 1000 yard shot at the animal of a lifetime with a 0.5 MOA rifle? I know I sure wouldn't and maybe in a lot of areas you don't get the chance to take a shot that far away but if I ever do I **** sure want to rifle that can connect. I guess my point is that I spend just as much if not more time developing loads for my hunting rifles as I do for a gun that may only get shot at the range for the most part. I see absolutely no reason why every single rifle of decent quality should not be able to shoot 0.25 MOA if you put the time and effort into it.

You got it rightyou gun must be close to perfect so you can aim for a spot and know if you miss it is you.I have shot at least 100 coyotes between the eyes at night at 200 to 250yds.if the gun was not a .25 or better that would not happen,and you would wonder why did i miss then you would second guess yourself and probably miss more.

 

[JimmyCP]

At 1 time long range was considered 600 yards. 1MOA was easily in the kill zone of the vitals and 1MOA was considered a good shooting rifles. This was when shoulder shots and 2000 lbs of energy at was the norm.
Now long range hunting is out to 1000 + yards with .5 and .7 bc bullets that if they hit the shoulder at close range they would explode on impact with the bone. I've seen results of some .7 blowing up from hitting a rib at 365 yards.

With all the variables between 600 and 1000+ yards it is imperative to have all the sharpest tools in the bag to make that shot.
The two biggest weaknesses in all of it is the knowledge of the ballistics and the capability of the shooter.

In some locations like where I hunt in foothills with very little cover, it's common for 700 to 1000 yard shots. I don't dare take the 15 year old kid or the wife there that is incapable of the shot. Nor would they want to try to make it if the couldn't make the shot in the off season consistently in the off season even though their rifle is capable.

 

[86alaskan]

I like to think that the "Good Enough" can be translated to adequate for the circumstances. As others have said, I've got rifles that hold .5 fairly well from prone or bench, and I've got MOA rifles that are great to hunt with. One in question is a 16" 460SW carbine. Is it a .5MOA rifle? not really, but I'm not using that rifle on bean fields, it gets carried on drives and while still hunting timber. It'll cut the strings on anything I see when I'm carrying it. I practice with all my hunting rifles and strive for the utmost accuracy, but when the rifle or the finger doesn't want to cooperate, I simply choose to limit my range. That doesn't mean that my good enough isn't that, it just means my definition is different. I don't think "good enough" is the same for everyone, as this thread has pretty plainly hashed out.

 

[woodsmanlw]

I don't post on this site very often but I do however read a lot of posts. The one phrase that I just can't seem to get past is (that's good enough for a hunting rifle). Al

I think you are falling into the trap of assuming your situation fits everyone else. What I have experienced is most people who hunt (probably more than 95%) are hunting at ranges of 200 yards or less. Now it is also considered that the kill zone is an 8" paper plate for big game. If you have your 1.5 MOA rifle you mention, then 8" of kill zone mean you can still hit that from about 500 yards, which is 300 yards more than these guys will shoot. You are on a long range forum so we assume long distance and most of us desire the same clean kill you mention so we expect a good shooting rifle and are willing to practice to be able to take advantage of that. So you and I not only desire that kind of accuracy but need it too. The majority of hunters though, do fall into the "thats good enough for a hunting rifle" category.

 

[Plinker147]

I strive for 1/2 MOA and most of my guns will do it. But a few are 3/4 to 1MOA. When I use the term "good enough for hunting" what I refer to is the difference between a 1/2 MOA rifle and a 1MOA rifle is less meaningful than the difference of making the wrong wind call at 1k. So other influences like wind and good rest and shooting techniques will have more influence on my hits or miss than the gun being 1/2 or 1 MOA. So instead of shooting a ton of more test rounds to achieve a 1/4 or 1/2 better MOA those rounds are better spent learning how to judge wind and other factors.

 

[WildRose]

Think about this..Is range time really as helpful as "Woods" time?
Learn where you hunt.. Learn what your deer do in different moon phases..Weather conditions..Food sources..Water..Escape routes ..Then those 350 yard shots become
70 yard shots and you pack meat home..Just saying...

That simply isn't possible in much of the country especially for guys that have to travel to a hunting destination where they'll only have a few days to fill an out of state tag.

In much of the best hunting habitat we have in the US you're going to be making shots across valleys and canyons where 300-400yds is the minimum you're going to get for distance and often quite a bit further.

 

[KyCarl]

My partner and I own 615 acres outside Spencer WV. Hunted the same place over 40 years. I know every rock and bush? We each spend several weeks there every year
keeping the house up and checking things out. I have spent the last 42 Thanksgivings
with him there. Age and health issues are changing that now.
I think if I had to travel to a strange place to hunt I would quit and just shoot steel?