Hunting 4 legged geurilla grocery grubbers

[Buffalobwana]

Texas does have a landowner liability protection law that does protect the landowner for "recreation" unless there is an egregious negligence on the landowner's part. Most states have similar laws and I have gotten permission through showing the landowner the rule and providing a sign off in accordance to the rule. Just another possibility to consider.

However, TX also promotes landowners hunting leases as addition income for landowners.

CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE CHAPTER 75. LIMITATION OF LANDOWNERS' LIABILITY

Two points here. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. True, fabricated, justified or unjustified. This law has no teeth and still costs the landowner money to hire council.

There is zero upside to allowing free hunting. Zero. A guy might kill one or two. That's not a drop in the bucket and not worth the risk. If it's night hunting, calves laying down can be mistaken by a noob. No way to know who a noob is.

Trapping is a different story. That puts a dent in the population.

Once again, if you aren't willing to put down cash or sweat equity to hunt, you aren't really that serious.

 

[Muddyboots]

Two points here. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. True, fabricated, justified or unjustified. This law has no teeth and still costs the landowner money to hire council.

This applies to guests just visiting. Lease is absolutely no different as a potential risk. You can never sign away 100% liability. In fact, a lease prob has more liability risk due as landowner is taking money to hunt your property implying the land is safe to hunt. The amount of any lease is virtually a drop in bucket to any liability lawsuit.

There is no safe haven except to allow no one on your property guests, family or otherwise.

Once again, if you aren't willing to put down cash or sweat equity to hunt, you aren't really that serious.

Totally disagree that ONLY those who have MONEY are "serious" therefore can hunt. This concept is driving hunters out of hunting and affecting hunter sustainability.

 

[Buffalobwana]

Totally disagree that ONLY those who have MONEY are "serious" therefore can hunt. This concept is driving hunters out of hunting and affecting hunter sustainability.

You aren't wrong, good hunting access is hard to come by, even for those with money. However, that isn't what I said.

Priorities. Do you have more house than you can easily afford? $1k truck payment? Private school for kiddos?

(By "you" I don't mean you, or anyone in particular, just a statement)

Nothing wrong with any of that. Those are mostly good priorities. But you prioritized them above your hunting budget. Maybe you are just poor. You really can't afford it. Life sucks sometimes. I think we have all been there.

Given that, why should a landowner allow you access to his property for free? Especially when there is a long line of people with cash in hand waiting to pay him?

Ever hear the phrase "No good deed goes unpunished"? Well, I have learned the hard way how true that really is.

 

[Muddyboots]

Interesting that I have FREE access to several properties that landowners do not think like this. Maybe its just different thought process of TX or other areas. I have property in MI and IN that allow me to hunt. They do not want payment nor do they want me to work for it. Enjoy our land as if it is your own and you can hunt. I have a neighbor in MI that just invited me to hunt his land couple weeks ago. Maybe I struck gold but I have land to hunt wherever I have lived. I had property in upstate NY same thing when I lived there.

Priorities. Do you have more house than you can easily afford? $1k truck payment? Private school for kiddos?

Nope. Retired.

Maybe you are just poor. You really can't afford it. Life sucks sometimes. I think we have all been there.

Average Joe with kids and all the standard life bills doesn't stand a chance to hunt if it requires significant money to do so. That is the guy or gal we cannot afford to lose as hunters. They are the ones that will raise their kids to hunt and sustain our future.

 

[Alibiiv]

From a landowners perspective, the time hassle and liability of someone hunting for free absolutely isn't worth it. Open gates, dead cows, trash, personal liability. Not worth it.

Yeah, maybe 30 years ago you could do it, but for the most part every acre of huntable land is either leased for hunting or reserved for the landowner and family to hunt. When hunting lease cost approaches or exceeds a cattle grazing price, you won't have a ton of luck finding free hunting access.

If not, even day hunts bring $100-$200/hunter and I'd steer clear of those offers. You usually get less than you pay for when you go cheap.

There are hunts in east TX that produce but it's all put and take. They buy hogs trapped outside the ranch and release them. You can usually spot these operations as they charge by the lb for anything you shoot.

There is no public hunting that I am aware of that is worth a squat.

There is one option that will set you apart from the guys looking for free hunts. Offer to swap labor for hunting rights. But, be prepared to work. Hard.

Sorry to be so blunt. Save some Pennie's and do it right. Buy a good hunt. Good hunting costs money in Texas.

I can appreciate "blunt", "BS" not so much. I would like to hunt something other than black bear or whitetail deer and have looked into hog hunting as an option. What I have found is that they are quite expensive for a three-day hunt and most of the outfitters are setting the hunter up with a penned up animal. Sort of like going to the zoo on a hunting trip. I realize that it "costs" money to run an operation, however I can book a good bear of deer hunt for $1800-2200 and have a good hunt that is for six-days, not....three!!! I was in a campground in Florida one year and a bunch of guys went hog hunting in the Lake Okeechobee area, like three out of the five guys took a hog, and one guy got bitten by a snake. So...if someone is looking for a hog hunt, it might be a good idea to get some snake boots or chaps to take along just in case.

 

[Buffalobwana]

Muddyboots … You are lucky that you have land access. My examples are for Texas ranchers, because that's exactly what you were asking about. There is virtually no public hunting here so the private lease is about the only option.

Like I said previously, when I say "you" I don't mean "you". I mean people in general.

It's difficult to convey tone in text and two people can read it differently. I'm talking more about our sport and the dwindling access to good hunting and what we have to do to hunt. Please don't take any of it personally.

If this were a campfire talk we would all be saying the same thing and agreeing with each other. Just sounds differently when we read it.

 

[Buffalobwana]

I can appreciate "blunt", "BS" not so much. I would like to hunt something other than black bear or whitetail deer and have looked into hog hunting as an option. What I have found is that they are quite expensive for a three-day hunt and most of the outfitters are setting the hunter up with a penned up animal. Sort of like going to the zoo on a hunting trip. I realize that it "costs" money to run an operation, however I can book a good bear of deer hunt for $1800-2200 and have a good hunt that is for six-days, not....three!!! I was in a campground in Florida one year and a bunch of guys went hog hunting in the Lake Okeechobee area, like three out of the five guys took a hog, and one guy got bitten by a snake. So...if someone is looking for a hog hunt, it might be a good idea to get some snake boots or chaps to take along just in case.

I can't disagree with most of this. I could also work on my tone, or how it comes across.

I don't believe the majority of operations are doing put and take hog hunts, but there are some for sure. Most I see that do this are east tx operations and … coincidentally, you can also shoot exotics there!

I also agree that the value isn't there on a lot of these pig hunts. I too would rather plop down $2k on anything other than a pig. Maybe it's bc I have shot hundreds and know that the big boars on the websites are 1 in 100

 

[Buffalobwana]

.. three out of the five guys took a hog, and one guy got bitten by a snake. So...if someone is looking for a hog hunt, it might be a good idea to get some snake boots or chaps to take along just in case.

Is it just me, or does this actually sound like more fun than a TX hog hunt???

Any hunt that has even a slight chance that I will come back dead, is worth the money.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Is it just me, or does this actually sound like more fun than a TX hog hunt???

Any hunt that has even a slight chance that I will come back dead, is worth the money.

Yep haha! Some appreciate 'danger' more than others..I'm one of the wierd ones that way.

Y'all are right, it is hard to have typed conversations about touchy subjects where there's no misunderstandings or hard feelings because you practically have to type a novel so that people understand what you're trying to say. Properly communicating like this takes forever.

I see good arguments on both sides and can bring some of my own for both sides as I'm also a landowner who occasionally gets asked permission to hunt (elk/deer). My case is a little different as I dont have a HUGE ranch, compared to the guy next door, and my house is almost right in the middle of it. Guy next door gets some pretty bad poaching pressure as some of the hunters here are ate up with the hunting bug- bad addicts that will do just about anything for their fix short of asking permission. The old game warden and I have nailed a few of them when I was leasing the neighbor's place but the new warden doesn't seem to care so I take it upon myself to get a little rowdy at times.

So with all that said, have respect for people who will ask permission. I dont always say yes, mostly because opportunities to kill something on my own property during an open season are pretty rare most years and I enjoy having the wildlife on the place during the summer- only the relative lack of hunting pressure makes that possible. If they bring their kid and I know them it's almost always yes. Its just something I like to see.

There have been some bad apples in the past who have really made a pest of themselves and taken advantage of that permission to hunt, to the point where they were talking multiple elk, one for each family memeber that had a tag and ruining my hunt in the process. So that put a bad taste in my mouth and I'm far more selective.

So even if I was still leasing the neighbor's place, and even if I was charging people to hunt (which I've never done as of yet) it would still have to be someone I know. I wouldnt expect any other landowner to let some stranger to hunt on their place whether it was paid for or not (I have not been to texas to hunt so there's my lack of experience on the matter). I always figured you had to earn trust, it's not automatic whether the hunting is paid for or not. Which makes selling hunts to a bunch of different people not sound all that fun. I get both arguments.

 

[Muddyboots]

So what us interesting is many states have HAP Hunter Access Programs on private land too. So if I bring the beverages we can go hunting together in TX? I bet we could do damage...on the beverage inventory that is!

 

[Sid Post]

Two points here. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. True, fabricated, justified or unjustified. This law has no teeth and still costs the landowner money to hire council.

If it's night hunting, calves laying down can be mistaken by a noob. No way to know who a noob is.

Litigious concerns cost a lot. And yes, you can be sued for 'fabricated' stuff and even if you WIN, you still have to pay the lawyers.

Absolutely with shooting the wrong thing. With 3 years on a thermal hunting feral hogs, a fawn laying down in the grass or a small hog are hard to tell apart. Add a little 'blood fever' and it is not uncommon to find a calf shot to death, or a coyote hunter that has a Bobcat pelt to show for their efforts.

Hunting around livestock is NOT FOR A NOVICE!

 

[Mr. Magoo]

So what us interesting is many states have HAP Hunter Access Programs on private land too. So if I bring the beverages we can go hunting together in TX? I bet we could do damage...on the beverage inventory that is!

I'm game!
Colorado has a deal where instead of paying the ranchers for the damage the wildlife cause/ eating of crops, they issue them a certain number of elk tags to try to get more hunting pressure on private land to drive the animals off. I used to get some when I leased more farm acreage and it was pretty nice because the season was long and at a time when the elk were actually on the property.

Alot of times, when we bring the cattle down from the mountains and turn them in on the river pasture the elk split for their wintering grounds and then you're stuck hunting with the crazies during regular season despite the fact that the animals spent all summer grazing on your land. Alfalfa and clover fed elk is a whole different taste.

I was too late applying this year.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Litigious concerns cost a lot. And yes, you can be sued for 'fabricated' stuff and even if you WIN, you still have to pay the lawyers.

Absolutely with shooting the wrong thing. With 3 years on a thermal hunting feral hogs, a fawn laying down in the grass or a small hog are hard to tell apart. Add a little 'blood fever' and it is not uncommon to find a calf shot to death, or a coyote hunter that has a Bobcat pelt to show for their efforts.

Hunting around livestock is NOT FOR A NOVICE!

Yep we never allow hunting in the same area as the cattle. Too risky. Up until recently even though we could hear the coyotes howling nearby we couldnt shoot at them at night since we had cattle in the north pasture near the house.

Some of the dollar figures I've seen in this thread for hunting leases seem like its barely worth the hassle or risk for the land owner. I wonder if its like an either/or situation- either livestock operation or hunting operation as I don't see how the two are compatible on smaller places considering the risks. If you figure dollars per acre, livestock and farming make way more sense (at this point) unless it's scrub land where no crops are grown and little grazing value.

 

[talltexanrancher]

Good thread.

I have experience on both sides of the access issue. I own several hunting properties in Texas so my deer and hog hunting are covered, but I have also knocked on doors in the off-season in WY, SD, and MT with decent success in gaining access for coyotes, gophers and prairie dogs. Not surprisingly, I've found that the older ranch owners are generally more open to that discussion than are the younger owners. I haven't tried to get access to hunt big game but I'm willing to bet that is a much tougher endeavor.