Blacktail63
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
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Please, can you tell me where I can find these graphs to down load.There are a couple common methods used, with varying accuracy.
-For both cases, use the wind values for the line-of-sight range with no correction factor
- Rifleman's Rule. Seems more common, but it not very accurate. Shooter gets MOA values from their 0-inclination range card for the horizontal distance range.
- Improved Rifleman's Rule. What Dog Rocket explained. This method is surprisingly accurate, and imo is easier to do. Shooter multiplies the drop MOA values from their 0-inclination range card by the cosine(shooting angle).
-If you want to convert your hold MOA to inches of drop, you have to use the horizontal distance to do so.
I went through this whole analysis last week as I became curious after some discussion in another thread. I was not surprised at how inaccurate the standard Rifleman's Rule is. I was surprised by how good of a job the Improved Rifleman's Rule did! Plenty accurate for most hunting situations! That said, it's not much more work to type a couple numbers into your cell phone's ballistic calculator.
Plots display the vertical difference for each method relative to the 'actual' ballistic solution as reported by JBM web calculator. Aka, how much you would miss by!
7mmRM was used for this calculation.
Standard Rifleman's Rule is good to 500 yards, or longer if the inclination angle is less than 10 degrees.
View attachment 215654
Improved Rifleman's Rule is surprisingly accurate for all but the largest inclination angles. FYI, this rule works better with a short zero distance.
View attachment 215656
And, if you apply no correction for shooting angle at all....
View attachment 215657
Perfect demonstration of the ineffectiveness of the Riflemans rule. It works out to 500 and 20 deg, but note that if you do nothing, that also works out to 500 and 20 degrees! Nice job, thanks for taking the time to present this data. So much more effective demonstration than the story style "this one time in elk camp..."There are a couple common methods used, with varying accuracy.
-For both cases, use the wind values for the line-of-sight range with no correction factor
- Rifleman's Rule. Seems more common, but it not very accurate. Shooter gets MOA values from their 0-inclination range card for the horizontal distance range.
- Improved Rifleman's Rule. What Dog Rocket explained. This method is surprisingly accurate, and imo is easier to do. Shooter multiplies the drop MOA values from their 0-inclination range card by the cosine(shooting angle).
-If you want to convert your hold MOA to inches of drop, you have to use the horizontal distance to do so.
I went through this whole analysis last week as I became curious after some discussion in another thread. I was not surprised at how inaccurate the standard Rifleman's Rule is. I was surprised by how good of a job the Improved Rifleman's Rule did! Plenty accurate for most hunting situations! That said, it's not much more work to type a couple numbers into your cell phone's ballistic calculator.
Plots display the vertical difference for each method relative to the 'actual' ballistic solution as reported by JBM web calculator. Aka, how much you would miss by!
7mmRM was used for this calculation.
Standard Rifleman's Rule is good to 500 yards, or longer if the inclination angle is less than 10 degrees.
View attachment 215654
Improved Rifleman's Rule is surprisingly accurate for all but the largest inclination angles. FYI, this rule works better with a short zero distance.
View attachment 215656
And, if you apply no correction for shooting angle at all....
View attachment 215657
I made them. Fairly straightforward to do for your rifle if you're curious. I used Excel, but google sheets would work too.Please, can you tell me where I can find these graphs to down load.
Easy dude...even Daniel Boone had trouble with inclines! Back in the day I suppose "a hopeful guess" was the method, which probably too many times resulted in a cold miss or a wounded animal. The smart kids use what technology they have to avoid those negative outcomes.OMG, doesn't anyone know how to shoot anymore without all this rule, adjustable scope, range finder, wind speed indicator & computer crap????????
If a guy is shooting at a known range on flat ground you wouldn't use a rangefinder or any "gadgets" anyway.Wind reading "gadgets" don't usually work very well being wind is so variable between you and the target. You seem like you don't have a whole lot of knowledge on the topic other than watching some guys make some wind calls on a rangeACTUALLY ITS AN ART. If you would be in the bush without power for an extended period of time, all you gadget guys would be fu*cked. So in my opinion its rude to ask the guy what is he doing here. Maybe be nice and you can learn something. I've met a couple of great army snipers at the range in Bute, MT. They had no gadets, no computers, and reading the wind you can't even imagine. So, when you can do that, you can comment.
I don't know what data was used to generate those charts, but here it is from JBM:Am I missing something? The OP said up to 600 yards and if I read the graphs correctly the "Rifleman's Rule" is off by ~3'' at 600 yards and the "improved Rifleman's Rule" is off by ~5". That would make the improved version LESS accurate at 600 yards
You are not making sense. Very few of us are pro athletes but certainly know enough to comment on them. Same here. Your snipers are extremely rare. And yet some here using their tools can match them.ACTUALLY ITS AN ART. If you would be in the bush without power for an extended period of time, all you gadget guys would be fu*cked. So in my opinion its rude to ask the guy what is he doing here. Maybe be nice and you can learn something. I've met a couple of great army snipers at the range in Bute, MT. They had no gadets, no computers, and reading the wind you can't even imagine. So, when you can do that, you can comment.
7mm Magnum with a high BC bullet @ 3,000 fps is similar.I don't know what data was used to generate those charts, but here it is from JBM:
308 w/175 SMK @ 2630 fps @ 2000 ft elevation:
600 yard flat drop in inches = 15.1 MOA = -95" drop
600 yards, -30* slope RR = 519 yards = -64.5" drop
600 yards, -30* slope IRR = 13 MOA = -81.6" drop
600 yards, -30* slope actual = 12.5 MOA = -78.5" drop