How clean is clean?

General RE LEE

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Aug 21, 2020
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38
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Middle Tennessee
I let my group size dictate when to deep clean bore. Both of my Tikkas (308 and 6.5) shoot best with fouling and copper in the bore. When group size opens up I get all the fouling and copper out with JB Bore paste on a patch wrapped around a brush and Kano Labs Kroil and then foul the bores up again.
 

rsbhunter

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Apr 3, 2006
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249
Location
New Mexico
bore cleaning is like picking a woman, everybody has their happiness levels....as said, what works for you is what you need to do. A little over simplification, but it's true. level of accuracy , round count, will dictate the need for alot of cleaning schedule's. I will restate what most br guy's live by, NEVER pull a brush back thru the muzzle...for utmost accuracy, the crown is king,,, but do what works for you...if you are happy , that what matters...
 

General RE LEE

Active Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
38
Location
Middle Tennessee
bore cleaning is like picking a woman, everybody has their happiness levels....as said, what works for you is what you need to do. A little over simplification, but it's true. level of accuracy , round count, will dictate the need for alot of cleaning schedule's. I will restate what most br guy's live by, NEVER pull a brush back thru the muzzle...for utmost accuracy, the crown is king,,, but do what works for you...if you are happy , that what matters...
Interesting about the bronze bore brush. I've always pushed it all the way out and then pulled it back through and did a brushing motion. I've never noticed a degradation in accuracy but I also don't over clean my guns.
 

J E Custom

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Joined
Jul 29, 2004
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10,493
Location
Texas
As stated each has there own cleaning regiment and believe it is best for them. I have always used bronze bore brushes to remove stubborn fouling and have rifle barrels with thousands of rounds down the tube with no loss in accuracy. Care should be taken to use as large as possible cleaning rod and the proper size bore brush to prevent slamming the crown with the back of the brush shaft or the back of the Jag. Also brushes should never be reversed in the bore. The bronze is softer but can get stuck.

I also believe in test loads with a clean bore each test so I don't develop a load that matches/needs a fouled bore condition to shoot its best. If you work up a load with a fouled barrel, it will only shoot its best in that fouled condition, and as we know fouling is never the same or consistent.

All of my match rifles and hunting rifles are used clean and loads are worked up in this condition so the first or second shot will be it's best. In matches that require 80 to 100 +rounds cleaning is not always possible so I have loads the need some fouling to be competitive. But in the precision shooting 600 yards+ I always clean back to bright metal for best accuracy with loads worked up for clean bore conditions.

Ultimately, it is up to the shooter what he thinks is best for him.

In my world, Clean is Clean. Not sorta, almost or slightly fouled.

J E CUSTOM
 

RODSTRADLEY

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Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
63
Location
OHIO
On this particular barrel, it was brand-new and it was before I bought the bore scope. On break in shot once then cleaned the carbon and copper out of it. Then 3 rounds and cleaned then 5, and so on until no copper and carbon after cleaning but just a very light tinge of gray on occasion . My thoughts on the gray tinge that's the SS barrel? Now I was cleaning it after load testing which would be anywhere from 10 to 30 rounds including sighting in different glass plus varmint hunting. The round count is 492 on this thing, so after working on this for about 5 hrs here are some photos of it. If I hadn't bought that scope I wouldn't have been the wiser. I went as far too using fine lapping compound with VFG felt pellets and that finally got it to where I could accept it, Now I will find out in a day or so how the **** thing shoots after all that work and a couple of late nights.
 

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milanuk

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Jan 21, 2002
Messages
875
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Wenatchee, WA
Now I will find out in a day or so how the **** thing shoots after all that work and a couple of late nights.
Rod,

I feel your pain. A while back I had a barrel that shot okay, then I borescoped it... it had what looked like burnt and broken asphalt going down the tops of the lands, on a barrel that couldn't possibly be burnt out. A lot of work with various abrasive solutions (including VFG pellets), and I finally got that crap out of there.

The good news was that that barrel really did shoot better being cleaned down to bare metal like that, every day (~70rds) (this was a match barrel on one of my F-class guns). Going two days... it wasn't happy. Three days... *I* wasn't happy.

The bad news was that it got *real* squirrelly that first couple shots out of the barrel after being cleaned down to bare metal. Like several MOA away from the expected POA/POI. The velocities of those first few shots were extremely erratic, usually quite low - presumably due to the extra friction.

The 'solution' turned out to be something I'd picked up from some BR guys I used to shoot with, a product called 'Smooth-Kote'. If I recall correctly, it's supposed to be "deactivated moly", and essentially what you do is you squirt some on patch or two, and swab the bore with it. The moly should off-gas after a few rounds, but in the interim, it gives you just enough lubrication to normalize things in the barrel... until those first couple shots burn it off, and deposit a little carbon of their own. So no more weird first few shots, and the velocities were right on target with subsequent shots.

HTH,

Monte
 

RODSTRADLEY

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Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
63
Location
OHIO
Rod,

I feel your pain. A while back I had a barrel that shot okay, then I borescoped it... it had what looked like burnt and broken asphalt going down the tops of the lands, on a barrel that couldn't possibly be burnt out. A lot of work with various abrasive solutions (including VFG pellets), and I finally got that crap out of there.

The good news was that that barrel really did shoot better being cleaned down to bare metal like that, every day (~70rds) (this was a match barrel on one of my F-class guns). Going two days... it wasn't happy. Three days... *I* wasn't happy.

The bad news was that it got *real* squirrelly that first couple shots out of the barrel after being cleaned down to bare metal. Like several MOA away from the expected POA/POI. The velocities of those first few shots were extremely erratic, usually quite low - presumably due to the extra friction.

The 'solution' turned out to be something I'd picked up from some BR guys I used to shoot with, a product called 'Smooth-Kote'. If I recall correctly, it's supposed to be "deactivated moly", and essentially what you do is you squirt some on patch or two, and swab the bore with it. The moly should off-gas after a few rounds, but in the interim, it gives you just enough lubrication to normalize things in the barrel... until those first couple shots burn it off, and deposit a little carbon of their own. So no more weird first few shots, and the velocities were right on target with subsequent shots.

HTH,

Monte
Monte
I feel a lot nicer since the carbon is finally gone and for the bore scope. Finishing up a 6.5 CM with a Criterion barrel and you can bet that it will never look like my 6.5 Grendel! As for the Moly I have used it many years ago but never in the bore but that could useful. I shoot suppressed with an adjustable gas block, do you think that it would carbon up quicker?
Rod
 

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