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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
How accurate are angle cosine indicators?
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<blockquote data-quote="Darryl Cassel" data-source="post: 17448" data-attributes="member: 34"><p>Brent</p><p></p><p>As you said, on paper and the real world, are two different things.</p><p></p><p>I have found that the spotter method is truly the most accurate way to place a shot from point A to point B at extreme range over 1000 yards.</p><p></p><p>That's why there is a spotter period in 1000 yard benchrest shooting. Someone trying to shoot their 10 match rounds without sighters at a 1000 yard target is just fooling themselves.</p><p></p><p>So why not employ the spotter method rational to 1000 yard plus shooting?</p><p></p><p>It has worked for us out to 2100 yards and to a friend of mine out to 2890 Yards on elk.</p><p></p><p>Of course "all" first round hits after the sighter round shot/s, are not "strickly" in the kill zone "every" time. Just like your method would certainly not be. </p><p></p><p>This does not matter as the distance we are shooting, the animal is not alarmed from the muzzle blast and just lays down when hit even when it's not in a fatal area.</p><p></p><p>I saw a friend of mine hit a large bull elk with his 30/378 long barreled rifle at 1350 yards. His shot hit right in the middle of the rib cage. It was behind the heart and lung area. The whole side of the elk just shook drasticly and he took two steps "backwards" and layed down on the spot. The next round, within 5 seconds after he laid down took it in the neck and it was dead. </p><p></p><p>I saw another one one time that another friend shot and the first hit was low in the shoulder. Not a killing hit. The elk laid down and the next shot was placed in the head to end any misery he may have had in those last few seconds of his life. </p><p></p><p>There are downfalls to every type of Longrange hunting and every shot is different.</p><p></p><p>The fact remains that the spotter shot first method is the only "true" and exact way of judging the wind and adjusting the scope elevation and windage for the killing shot.</p><p></p><p>At 1000 yards and under, it is quite easy to make 1st round hits/kills but past that, the game changes.</p><p>I killed a buck up here in Norhtern PA that was out at 1000 yards. No sighter shot was taken and the bullet hit at the base of the neck and it was dead right there.</p><p></p><p>Killed two Mule deer back to back (My buddy one and I got the other)at 1050 yards in Colorado. One shot for each deer and no spotters needed at all.</p><p></p><p>Like I said over that yardage (1000 yards), a spotter is needed and when a swich is seen in the wind, another spotter is taken.</p><p></p><p>It has worked for us for many years but the fact remains, "most" of the shots are in the kill zone and normally through at least one shoulder. We have not lost an animal to date that was hit by our Long-rage rifles and thats a lot of years of hunting and alot of game taken. </p><p></p><p>I wish I were in Alaska and had the chance to use the spotter method there as it looks like the area we hunt in Colorado.</p><p></p><p>"All" extreme Longrange hunters from PA who travel west to hunt and here in the North Central part of the State use the spotter method and it works well for all of us.</p><p></p><p>Like I mentioned before, there are "many" LR hunters that come to this area and I have a chance to travel around and talk to most of them in the two weeks of Buck season after I have taken mine. Most times I get invited to sit and glass with them and help spot which I like to do.</p><p></p><p>They all use the spotter method as they want to be as close as possible to the kill zone when they take their shot at the animal. No other method I have found will allow this. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, what works for us is one thing and what works for you is another.</p><p>I'll keep the spotter method as I have not seen a better way yet and have tried most every way there is over the years. </p><p></p><p>I've tried the multiple dots in the scope, the ranging style scopes and don't like them at all. I don't like to see a lot of lines and dots in the view.</p><p>I personnaly like the fine cross hair or 1/4 MIN dot to look through in my scopes. I have a NF-NXS with the 2-DD that works well though. I think the CH 1,2 or 3 would be even better for our style of LR hunting.</p><p></p><p>I guess you can say, it's what ever trips your trigger that counts and to each his own. Whatever works for "you" or "me" or anyone else is the important thing.</p><p></p><p>Later and Good hunting.</p><p>DC <img src="http://images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> </p><p></p><p>On another note----Does your Oehler 43 have it's own printout and screen like the 35-P or do you have to use a laptop computer and printer with it in the field? </p><p>Most 43s I've seen, you have to have a computer?</p><p></p><p>[ 11-29-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Darryl Cassel, post: 17448, member: 34"] Brent As you said, on paper and the real world, are two different things. I have found that the spotter method is truly the most accurate way to place a shot from point A to point B at extreme range over 1000 yards. That's why there is a spotter period in 1000 yard benchrest shooting. Someone trying to shoot their 10 match rounds without sighters at a 1000 yard target is just fooling themselves. So why not employ the spotter method rational to 1000 yard plus shooting? It has worked for us out to 2100 yards and to a friend of mine out to 2890 Yards on elk. Of course "all" first round hits after the sighter round shot/s, are not "strickly" in the kill zone "every" time. Just like your method would certainly not be. This does not matter as the distance we are shooting, the animal is not alarmed from the muzzle blast and just lays down when hit even when it's not in a fatal area. I saw a friend of mine hit a large bull elk with his 30/378 long barreled rifle at 1350 yards. His shot hit right in the middle of the rib cage. It was behind the heart and lung area. The whole side of the elk just shook drasticly and he took two steps "backwards" and layed down on the spot. The next round, within 5 seconds after he laid down took it in the neck and it was dead. I saw another one one time that another friend shot and the first hit was low in the shoulder. Not a killing hit. The elk laid down and the next shot was placed in the head to end any misery he may have had in those last few seconds of his life. There are downfalls to every type of Longrange hunting and every shot is different. The fact remains that the spotter shot first method is the only "true" and exact way of judging the wind and adjusting the scope elevation and windage for the killing shot. At 1000 yards and under, it is quite easy to make 1st round hits/kills but past that, the game changes. I killed a buck up here in Norhtern PA that was out at 1000 yards. No sighter shot was taken and the bullet hit at the base of the neck and it was dead right there. Killed two Mule deer back to back (My buddy one and I got the other)at 1050 yards in Colorado. One shot for each deer and no spotters needed at all. Like I said over that yardage (1000 yards), a spotter is needed and when a swich is seen in the wind, another spotter is taken. It has worked for us for many years but the fact remains, "most" of the shots are in the kill zone and normally through at least one shoulder. We have not lost an animal to date that was hit by our Long-rage rifles and thats a lot of years of hunting and alot of game taken. I wish I were in Alaska and had the chance to use the spotter method there as it looks like the area we hunt in Colorado. "All" extreme Longrange hunters from PA who travel west to hunt and here in the North Central part of the State use the spotter method and it works well for all of us. Like I mentioned before, there are "many" LR hunters that come to this area and I have a chance to travel around and talk to most of them in the two weeks of Buck season after I have taken mine. Most times I get invited to sit and glass with them and help spot which I like to do. They all use the spotter method as they want to be as close as possible to the kill zone when they take their shot at the animal. No other method I have found will allow this. Anyway, what works for us is one thing and what works for you is another. I'll keep the spotter method as I have not seen a better way yet and have tried most every way there is over the years. I've tried the multiple dots in the scope, the ranging style scopes and don't like them at all. I don't like to see a lot of lines and dots in the view. I personnaly like the fine cross hair or 1/4 MIN dot to look through in my scopes. I have a NF-NXS with the 2-DD that works well though. I think the CH 1,2 or 3 would be even better for our style of LR hunting. I guess you can say, it's what ever trips your trigger that counts and to each his own. Whatever works for "you" or "me" or anyone else is the important thing. Later and Good hunting. DC [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] On another note----Does your Oehler 43 have it's own printout and screen like the 35-P or do you have to use a laptop computer and printer with it in the field? Most 43s I've seen, you have to have a computer? [ 11-29-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ] [/QUOTE]
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