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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
How accurate are angle cosine indicators?
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<blockquote data-quote="4mesh063" data-source="post: 17420" data-attributes="member: 941"><p>Brent, </p><p></p><p>I tend to agree with Darryl here. Actually, He and I shot in a few relays together this year and several where his was a relay away from mine or that sort of thing. For the most part, we shot similar conditions, though sometimes one of us shot in horrible wind and the others relay was ok just later or vice versa. We shot on benches side by side and had extremely dissimmalar results and that's not uncommon there, especially at benches 1-5. </p><p></p><p>Just in the banquet shoot here in November, I shot the fourth relay. Relays 1 2 and 3 all shot 90's in absolutely dead calm conditions. Without a doubt, the best conditions of the year by a longshot. The fourth relay shot in what seemed to be excellent conditions also, but, all the scores dropped 10 points from bench 1 to 12. Here was a relay that over 1000 yards, I saw absolutely not one hint of condition and was blown farther off center than I had been all year (side to side). My score related to every other shooter in the relay and there were some excellent other shooters in the relays who shot great all year. Not a single one saw the change left in 4A and right in 4B. Not one. Now, all these shooters shoot at this range all the time and the flags showed absolutely nothing to any one of em.</p><p></p><p>We don't have flags over our game we hunt. And noone putting up spotters. Guessing the wind is something that people believe they can do only when they have shot thier entire life over easy conditions. Like, shooting where the wind is dead constant in 1 direction. If you show me a person who can read the wind at Cascade (Williamsport), well, I'd pay pretty good money to see that. The people who do well do just exactly what DC said AND they have guns that shoot well and they load well. </p><p></p><p>I know lots of people make great shots and I don't doubt that they can calculate a lot of the trajectory before pulling the trigger. But, all I can say is there is a lot more to reading conditions than what most people think. I know He'll tell ya that over the years a lot of people came to that range thinking they knew something about wind and could demonstrate that to the people there and left knowing they had a great deal yet to learn. </p><p></p><p>He's just saying that you have to be experienced with the terrain over which you shoot and even then sometimes you get stung. At the PA World open, we had a little wind and had hosts of people who couldn't keep 10 on. Shooters from our own club as well as from elsewhere. Even in the early morning relays, people had shots off.</p><p></p><p>I shoot at my house and I used to work out of my home. Every single day I would get my gun out for one and only one shot (at least) and shoot a steel target at some range (I have several) out my living room window off a bipod from the end table and couch. These would be anywhere from 300 yards 4" square to 600 yards 15" round. I prided myself on hits in ANY condition with a 22 cal every day. Make a good guess, dial, pow. Then I went to Cascade. Whooaaa!</p><p></p><p>I do not attempt to read wind any more. Period. My rule is, no adjustment over 8" under any circumstance. Period. That's all there is to it. There's just no guessin it here. Yes, people make an adjustment and guess right and win a relay and feel real proud of themselves. I've done that. But I'm not gonna try to BS you and tell you that I could do it again any other given day because anyone who knows the place would tell me correctly that I was full of excrement. </p><p></p><p>Now, to make a single shot on target at this kind of range... No deal. Perhaps elsewhere. Not here. I have yet to see a person show me otherwise. The terrain He hunts over where He lives is considerably steeper than this part of the state. I live on rolling hills, where 800ft is 2 miles from 1600ft of elevation. Wind is easy here. Pathetic. He's where 1500ft of change is 1/3mi. Wind has considerable verticle component AND it's swirling. </p><p></p><p>I know I'm gonna get a ton of argument on this, but, you know the saying, "I'm from Missouri, show me!" This isn't something anyone can come there to demonstrate. You'll just have to come here and try it out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="4mesh063, post: 17420, member: 941"] Brent, I tend to agree with Darryl here. Actually, He and I shot in a few relays together this year and several where his was a relay away from mine or that sort of thing. For the most part, we shot similar conditions, though sometimes one of us shot in horrible wind and the others relay was ok just later or vice versa. We shot on benches side by side and had extremely dissimmalar results and that's not uncommon there, especially at benches 1-5. Just in the banquet shoot here in November, I shot the fourth relay. Relays 1 2 and 3 all shot 90's in absolutely dead calm conditions. Without a doubt, the best conditions of the year by a longshot. The fourth relay shot in what seemed to be excellent conditions also, but, all the scores dropped 10 points from bench 1 to 12. Here was a relay that over 1000 yards, I saw absolutely not one hint of condition and was blown farther off center than I had been all year (side to side). My score related to every other shooter in the relay and there were some excellent other shooters in the relays who shot great all year. Not a single one saw the change left in 4A and right in 4B. Not one. Now, all these shooters shoot at this range all the time and the flags showed absolutely nothing to any one of em. We don't have flags over our game we hunt. And noone putting up spotters. Guessing the wind is something that people believe they can do only when they have shot thier entire life over easy conditions. Like, shooting where the wind is dead constant in 1 direction. If you show me a person who can read the wind at Cascade (Williamsport), well, I'd pay pretty good money to see that. The people who do well do just exactly what DC said AND they have guns that shoot well and they load well. I know lots of people make great shots and I don't doubt that they can calculate a lot of the trajectory before pulling the trigger. But, all I can say is there is a lot more to reading conditions than what most people think. I know He'll tell ya that over the years a lot of people came to that range thinking they knew something about wind and could demonstrate that to the people there and left knowing they had a great deal yet to learn. He's just saying that you have to be experienced with the terrain over which you shoot and even then sometimes you get stung. At the PA World open, we had a little wind and had hosts of people who couldn't keep 10 on. Shooters from our own club as well as from elsewhere. Even in the early morning relays, people had shots off. I shoot at my house and I used to work out of my home. Every single day I would get my gun out for one and only one shot (at least) and shoot a steel target at some range (I have several) out my living room window off a bipod from the end table and couch. These would be anywhere from 300 yards 4" square to 600 yards 15" round. I prided myself on hits in ANY condition with a 22 cal every day. Make a good guess, dial, pow. Then I went to Cascade. Whooaaa! I do not attempt to read wind any more. Period. My rule is, no adjustment over 8" under any circumstance. Period. That's all there is to it. There's just no guessin it here. Yes, people make an adjustment and guess right and win a relay and feel real proud of themselves. I've done that. But I'm not gonna try to BS you and tell you that I could do it again any other given day because anyone who knows the place would tell me correctly that I was full of excrement. Now, to make a single shot on target at this kind of range... No deal. Perhaps elsewhere. Not here. I have yet to see a person show me otherwise. The terrain He hunts over where He lives is considerably steeper than this part of the state. I live on rolling hills, where 800ft is 2 miles from 1600ft of elevation. Wind is easy here. Pathetic. He's where 1500ft of change is 1/3mi. Wind has considerable verticle component AND it's swirling. I know I'm gonna get a ton of argument on this, but, you know the saying, "I'm from Missouri, show me!" This isn't something anyone can come there to demonstrate. You'll just have to come here and try it out. [/QUOTE]
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How accurate are angle cosine indicators?
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