hodgdon 4350 vs imr4895 in 30-06

[Steve2021]

This is my first forum to seek input, i normally work my problems out solo.
Hodgdon 4350 vs imr 4895 in 30-06 savage axis.

I ran into an issue with 2 loads and am on a hunt for answers.
46gr imr4895 with 165gr nosler ballastic tip.
57gr h4350 with 165 gr hornady sst
After 100 yard zero with hornady sst, i decided to compare the nosler and the nosler hit 5" higher. I know there's a ballistic coefficient difference and my next step is to chronograph these loads but thought someone may have logical input. I'm not able to rationalize this much difference at 100 yards.

 

[Dmagna]

Burn rates, barrel harmonics, speeds, and different bullets can have a lot to do with POI shifts.

 

[243winxb]

Velocity difference?

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Burn rates, barrel harmonics, speeds, and different bullets can have a lot to do with POI shifts.

Yup, with the burn rate difference he's prolly just tossing one near center node and the other near the top/bottom. One load will likely be accurate, the other flaky.

 

[Steve2021]

Yup, with the burn rate difference he's prolly just tossing one near center node and the other near the top/bottom. One load will likely be accurate, the other flaky.

No, both loads were 1" group (nothing to brag about while rough sighting new scope) just 5" difference. I zeroed with the (4350) sst and the (4895) nosler load was 5" higher on 100 yard. im leaning on the powder difference but do need to get velocity to rule on.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

No, both loads were 1" group (nothing to brag about while rough sighting new scope) just 5" difference. I zeroed with the (4350) sst and the (4895) nosler load was 5" higher on 100 yard. im leaning on the powder difference but do need to get velocity to rule on.

try them at more than one temperature... they probably will not both shoot well both hot and cold, unless it's simply barrel time differences causing the poi difference... that's a lot more than a couple different powders should do... The only rifle I'm chasing that kind of poi difference on is my 405 Winchester. I run 300gr factory, 370 hand cast, and 400 grain bonded through it... I've got about a 10" poi shift at 100, but that's 100 grains spread in bullet...

 

[BillLarson]

If you,re trying to discover new loads for a 30-06....... your time would be better spent just practicing shooting...
OMHO...mileage may vary..

 

[gohring3006]

Not uncommon at all for different bullets to print in different locations.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Not uncommon at all for different bullets to print in different locations.

same pill weight .. different powder from what he said..

 

[Old Rooster]

Steve2021 reverse those loads with bullets.
46.0 gr 4895 Hornady SST and 57 gr H4350 with the Nosler Ballistic tip.
That will tell what's going on.
Maybe your rifle loves 4895 the most.Reversing the bullets will tell the story.
I have found the Ballistic tips shoot a bit higher in both my 30-06's.Maybe not as much as your's but each rifle is it's own animal.
Old Rooster

 

[imyourhuckleberry]

The BC of the Hornady is .441 an the Nosler is .475 but the load data of the Nosler puts velocity lower than the load of the Hornady which is nearly max load at 57gr with 2900 fps and the Nosler at 2640 fps. Technically I would have assumed that the Hornady would have a higher poi than the Nosler due to velocity alone with a flatter trajectory even though the BC is lower. I would have to guess that the Nosler's poi is higher simply due to harmonics. The bullet exits the barrel when the barrel vibration is at the peak of the vibration and the Hornady exits at the lower spectrum of the vibration.

 

[Jerry M]

IMHO tweak the H4350 load for your .30-06 bolt rifle. Especially if you're already shooting 1 inch groups. IMR-4895 works great out of an M1 garand but a slower powder is optimal for bolt rifles.

 

[asd9055]

No, both loads were 1" group (nothing to brag about while rough sighting new scope) just 5" difference. I zeroed with the (4350) sst and the (4895) nosler load was 5" higher on 100 yard. im leaning on the powder difference but do need to get velocity to rule on.

I believe it has to do with barrel harmonics and where the node is. If you ever watched a video of barrel harmonics, you will see that when the bullet exits, the barrel can be up, down or somewhere in between. The one that shoots higher, the bullet exits when the barrel is up. That is my understanding. I could be wrong..

Barrel Harmonics Mode Shape Movies

 

[GuntherRLII]

,30-06 seems a bit more fussy than some cartridges I've worked with but to be honest 19 out of 22 were made before 1936. Most kept similar bullets of the same weight pretty close together except 180 Nosler Partitions. Some had to be sighted with any bullet change With the same load several shot 3 inches right and 8 inches low. I have worked with 2 .270's that did the exact same thing with 130 Partitions and these rifles throw everything but those in the same group. From 100 Hornadys to those 155 Herters banana peels so I would use whatever I could find that was cheap and shoot cats. I run mostly 180's in the 06 using around 60 grains of H4831 but back in the day 56 of IMR 4350 also worked well. For the M1 I stick to 150 ish and H4895. I tried some 165's for my Gramps in law years ago but never really liked them. They didn't shoot too bad out of his old mil surp Peruvian but that was the hardest rifle to shoot that ever existed. He liked the 46 pound 14 stage stacking and unstacking trigger that pulled about 2 feet. It was an excellent "suprise break trigger" as I was surprised I could even get it to go off.