Help Needed with LB3.0 and .338 Bergers

Jon, good suggestion. I have never tried it. I shot 5 of this load across my chrono and 3 were 2820 and the other two were 2819. I trusted it, silly me:rolleyes::D.

I want to shoot across an oehler now. If it shows my velocity to be at the 2705 area I wll buy one. If not, I dont feel I need a chrono because I have always had to change the given velocity anyway to match the Balistic programs. Who knows, maybe they are all wrong...lightbulb:D:D

Jeff

Wow...that is some consistency on the chrono. Scratch my suggestions...!
 
banded vel BC of .891 and it is spot on too at these ranges of 700, 1042 and 1342 yards.

Jeff.

Not sure I understand what you are saying above as you obviously know that the .891 G1 is and average G1 BC and not the velocity banded G1 data...
Jon
 
Jeff.

Not sure I understand what you are saying above as you obviously know that the .891 G1 is and average G1 BC and not the velocity banded G1 data...
Jon


Oops, Mistake on my part. It shoud have read G1 BC of .891. I guess I should have finished the second cup of coffee before attempting to type.

Thanks for the catch, I have corrected it.

Jeff
 
I'm drawn to this thread like a moth to a light bulb but I'm not as smart as you guys and it's gving me a headach just trying to follow along. :)
 
I'm drawn to this thread like a moth to a light bulb but I'm not as smart as you guys and it's gving me a headach just trying to follow along. :)

B23, that is exactly how I felt till I bought LB3.0. I would read looking to learn but none of it made sense till it was in front of me. All the MV, BC, DC, and FC talk I could not follow.

MV= Muzzle Velocity
BC= Ballistic Coefficiency
DC= Drag Coefficent
FC= Field Conditions
all used in LB3.0 program

Just ask questions, and you will get answers. There are some people here with a huge welth of knowledge and they are kind enough to share it.

Good thing for me..:)

Jeff
 
Broz, you can highlight the wind direction with your stylus and then select the little key board in the center bottom of the screen and you can punch in the numbers you want then tap the range box and it will re calculate you wind direction, it's easier than wheeling all the way around.
 
I know, I know, I know, it's the "hard" that makes it great and if it were easy everyone would be doing it.

But just once I would like to pick a hobby that was easy. lol
 
Berger Bulletin

Check it out. Some very interesting updates from Litz...

Yes, I just read it. I think this definatly explains some of my problems and the reason for need to use such a low MV.

I need to think this over here. Not sure what I want to do. I have lots of these on hand but why would I want to spend anymore time and barrel life if the design is to be changed and I would need to start over.

Hmmmmm.:rolleyes:

Jeff
 
Yes, I just read it. I think this definatly explains some of my problems and the reason for need to use such a low MV.

I need to think this over here. Not sure what I want to do. I have lots of these on hand but why would I want to spend anymore time and barrel life if the design is to be changed and I would need to start over.

Hmmmmm.:rolleyes:

Jeff

Yes, I was feeling a little low for buying 500 ct. 300g SMK's in April and then having the Berger Hybrid come out right after that, but I think the SMK's will work just fine in the 338AX to well beyond what I should be shooting at game at this point.

I'll likely wait for the Berger 300g VLD to be tested and found true, then decide to jump on 'em or not.

I applaud Berger for being as honest as they are and I'm sure they'll get the issues worked out.
 
Right now I am back to my old belief that most all of us are being fooled by chronographs. I dont think we can spend $100, $200 or even $500 on a piece of equipment, to measure the speed of a projectile 1 1/2" long and traveling at a speed of 3000 fps. and expect this equpment to be accurate. How can something that cost only a few hundred dollars do this? Yet we undoubtingly rely on them. And even more so, we believe that when they say 5 or 10 measured projctiles fell into with in less than 10 FPS of each other, we believe it and are happy. I am not sure I buy this. Right now I think Eaglets method of finding MV is far more accurate than any chrono I have been around in my 40 years of shooting. I also believe that your 1000 yards group is the best test for ES.

Thanks!

Jeff

I want to shoot across an oehler now. If it shows my velocity to be at the 2705 area I wll buy one. If not, I dont feel I need a chrono because I have always had to change the given velocity anyway to match the Balistic programs. Who knows, maybe they are all wrong...lightbulb:D:D

Jeff

Broz,

Remember my Shooting Chrony post? :)

I suggest a good set of chronographs set up to run in tandem, or the Oehler 35P with the proof channel.

I can say with high confidence that running quality dual chronographs in tandem (or the Oehler 35P with the second Proof channel) will accurately identify ES & SD. I've explained this in prior threads, so I won't rehash it here. The set of quality chronographs (or 35P equivalent with its dual recording capability) is typically the more accurate method of obtaining MV also, rather than guesstimating MV based on drops - IMO. The only way one could ID MV with drops is if one absolutely has the correct BC entered into the ballistics software, has properly accounted for atmospheric conditions, operates the software correctly, and is a dead-eye of a shot (you pass that last one with flying colors).

I will acknowledge that IF Bryan Litz's G7 BCs are all dead on the money, you should be able to come close to your actual MV with extensive shooting like you're currently doing. And I give Litz's G7 BCs the benefit of the doubt for being correct, based on the limited testing I've done to date with 1000 yd chronographed velocities for three separate bullets. I do think Bryan has his act together and is producing quality BC data. So I think Eaglet was on the right track respecting the Berger BC and looking at MV (based on the Shooting Chrony if nothing else :D) as a source of faulty input data. You enter valid input data into LB, and it will produce accurate predicted dope.


Keep an open mind. You may end up surprised what quality chronographs (you have to have two run in tandem to have any basis to trust the data - IMO) are able to do in the way of capturing accurate velocities. From repeated observations on this Forum, many invest $3000 to $6000 on their rifles & scopes and then go sour on chronographs based on their purchase, and experience with, an entry level model chronograph. And those conclusions are probably well deserved - based on the use of a single, low end chronograph.

Even with a quality chronograph, the only way to establish and separate valid recorded data from the faulty recorded data (which will occur every now and then), is with the second chronograph run in tandem.
 
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Broz,

Just started to read the about Bryan's revision of the BC. Punch the new G7 BC into LB. Then if you modify the MV to match your drops, you'll probably be very close to the real MV - what with all the careful shooting and documentation you have done. We'll all be waiting for the results!

Very good of Bryan and Berger to adjust the BC on such a newly released bullet. Must of been some kind of a hiccup in the prior testing.
 
Very nice Eaglet!!! I was over thinking it and not wanting to touch the MV. I hate changing the BC, especially one that has Litz involved. And having to change the drag more than a little also bugs me cause it points to a potential data point some where earlier in the process.
In my 270 WSM I loose 41 FPS with the Berger over the Accubond with the same load. I feel the reason is the bearing length of the bullet allows the bullet to move easier down the bore lowering the pressure in the barrel which in turn lowers the MV.
Eaglet mentioned Coriolis, I would get a bearing and use it, I was playing with it as a part of the solution and you will see coming into play.

I learn more about using Loadbase 3.0 every time Eaglet posts, thanks for being patient with us who are still on the low side of the learning curve!!:D

bigngreen,

We're just like a big family, most of us, we all want to help. Even when we can't we wish we could! I know you're one of them! Thank you! We've got a great bunch of good people in this place, God Bless their heart!
 
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