Help needed with die selection

rsnell

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Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
69
1. Yes. Use a full length sizing die to bump the shoulder back. I do this all the time with a co-ax press.

2, The 300 PRC case is not a belted magnum so the Innovative Technologies die will not work. It is designed for belted magnums. That die will solve your problem with the 300 Winchester magnum case but it is expensive (approximately $120). I use the Innovative Technologies die for 300 Weatherby brass.

3. Use any standard full length sizing die you choose. Custom dies will work.
 

Mc Fraser

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Jul 23, 2018
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294
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Calgary, AB
I don’t have much experience with lots of brands, but as another has said the only one I have a beef with is RCBS. The depriming pins seem to break if you look at them funny and for whatever reason (metallurgy?) I have had way more stuck cases in RCBS dies than any other. I honestly prefer lee over RCBS at this point, and while they’re not pricey and you can tell why, my current accuracy load in my .300 win mag is put together with the cheapest lee dies money can buy and prints repeatable “ragged hole” groups at 100 so take that for whatever its worth.
I believe you! I'm shocked about by my RCBS FL die with the expander ball and 145 eldx for my 270win - 1 thou measured with 21st century gauge. It's the regular RCBS die.
 

Mc Fraser

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I personally like Forster BR dies and ultra seaters. I however remove the expanded ball and basically everything inside the FL die. I use a Sinclair mandrel to set me neck tension as my last step before final tumble.
I'm not familiar with the process of using mandrels to set neck tension. Please educate me or perhaps there is a detailed youtube video that you would recommend? My first question would be what does the mandrel do that a bushing will not?
 

Justin Petrovich

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Aug 5, 2019
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Ca
A lot of my sizing dies are Forster. I use Forster bushing neck size die and Forster FL sizing die. I vary more on seating dies. I use RCBS matchmaster seating dies for .223rem and 6mm creedmoor. Hornady seating die for 6.5 grendel, .458 socom and .338 lapua. Redding seating die for .308, 30-06 and 300wm. I only use 1 maybe 2 different bullets per caliber so the seating die is focused on the bullet being seated where the sizing die is focused on the brass. I have in the past changed seating dies if I changed bullets being seated but the sizing die remains the same. Most of my pistol dies are Dillon because I load pistol on Dillon press for quantity.
 

jpope02

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Apr 3, 2012
Messages
165
Hello everyone,
I need new dies for my custom 300 PRC on Defiance anti action. Let's leave the cost aspect out of this conversation and focus on technical and performance factors to achieve the best results at 1000 yds.

I will be using a coax press and I am searching for the best dies and I also need help understanding how some dies work.

If I understand correctly there are two major ways to size your brass, bump the shoulder or FL resizing. I read enough to understand that its an ongoing battle regarding which method yields the best results. In both cases, neck tension makes a difference.
My questions are:
1. With a co ax press can you use a FL die but chose how far down I want the neck bumped?
2. How far down does a FL die goes? I had a 300 win mag and always had issues because the dies won't touch far enough.
3. Would custom dies fix all the above?
My understanding with custom dies is that they are manufactured based on 3 fired cases. That doesn't make sense to me (I'm sure I'm missing something); my assumption is that the OD is measured in multiple spots and the smallest OD-x thou is picked for the ID of the die. That is somehow ok, but how do you know the length? Most cases don't stretch all the way from one firing. Would be better to use an imprint of the chamber, or just send the barrel? I'm trying to understand what advantage custom dies bring to the table and the only one that I see is the custom ID.

I know that Forster and Redding make good dies, I don't doubt that; personally I had really bad results and terrible customer support experience with Redding, good results with Forster and unbelievable results with RCBS.
Why 300 PRC?
 

Beluebow

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Dec 6, 2004
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210
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Ar.
I'm not familiar with the process of using mandrels to set neck tension. Please educate me or perhaps there is a detailed youtube video that you would recommend? My first question would be what does the mandrel do that a bushing will not?
Typically you would run your cases into a full length die (or bushing die) and the follow up with the expander mandrel to set the targeted amount of neck tension. This may/may not require different size mandrels or bushings and some experimenting to get the desired fit. Seating depth and seating pressures tend to be more consistent across the board with this technique IMO.......Clear as mud? I probably didn't explain this very clearly.
 

nt7332

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Nov 24, 2016
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Rio Rancho NM
Anyone has experience with custom dies? What brands are considered premium?
No need for custom dies for this application u will be just fine with the advice that has been given thus far. It’s not a hard round to load. However, if u just got to have the best the premium is Warner die with his bushings prolly will never get that level of consistency with anything else. This is a timely process to get it all made from fired brass for your chamber, that die coupled with his line bored necks is the ultimate in consistency. But again u don’t need that for this setup, good set of Forster or Redding dies (SET UP CORRECTLY) will get u to the same spot.
 

nt7332

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If u are unsure still on the mandrel and where it fits in shoot me a message with your number I will walk u thru it, very easy and best money I have ever spent.
 

nksmfamjp

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Jan 5, 2004
Messages
673
What is the general opinion of Lee collet neck sizer? I read good things!
 

cdherman

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Aug 9, 2008
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Location
Kansas City
Regarding using a mandrel:

The basic concept of course is to size the neck back down enough to hold the next bullet you put in it. If you try and put a bullet in an fired cartridge, it SHOULD just slide in finger tight at the hardest. If it doesn't, well, you may all sorts of other issues.

You get the neck sized down by forcing it into a smaller die (a hole smaller than it is). This is the basic concept, step 1

Standard dies force the neck WAY... down and then open it back up when you pull the expander button back through the neck. Standard dies are made to deal with all the extremes. Thick neck, thin necks, uneven necks. A standard die set sizes the heck out of the brass and relies on the expander to open it back up. It compacts and stretches the brass a lot, and the brass gets hard when its "worked". So case life is impacted.

Some guys have dies that have bushings that neck/reduce/size the neck according to their wishes. Works the brass less. Done perfectly, with very uniform brass, or neck turned brass, you can then just shove a bullet in the neck and you are good to go.

But some of us are not shooting a gun that has perfect Lapua brass, and/or we are not interested in neck turning every case. So just sizing from the outside (bushing), is not quite right. Imagine then that the "thicker parts" of the neck are now "on the inside". It will grip a bullet, but its inconsistent from round to round.

Enter, the mandrel. You can buy them in .001" increments, and run them into the case after its been sized from the outside. A mandrel pushes the irregularities of the neck back out to the outside, thus improving neck tension consistency. Why is a mandrel better than a sizing ball or expander? They both perform the same basic function.

Well, for first, the makers of mandrels are more exact in their dimensions. And the normal expander balls are more variable.

But also: Pulling the expander back out of a case tends to lengthen/elongate the case. This can cause problems with chambering at times. The mandrel will do the opposite, it pushes the shoulder BACK a touch. So you have less chambering issues.

In the end, there is no one proven solution. But there a lot of very good shooters using mandrels as the last step.
b
 

Mc Fraser

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Jul 23, 2018
Messages
294
Location
Calgary, AB
Regarding using a mandrel:

The basic concept of course is to size the neck back down enough to hold the next bullet you put in it. If you try and put a bullet in an fired cartridge, it SHOULD just slide in finger tight at the hardest. If it doesn't, well, you may all sorts of other issues.

You get the neck sized down by forcing it into a smaller die (a hole smaller than it is). This is the basic concept, step 1

Standard dies force the neck WAY... down and then open it back up when you pull the expander button back through the neck. Standard dies are made to deal with all the extremes. Thick neck, thin necks, uneven necks. A standard die set sizes the heck out of the brass and relies on the expander to open it back up. It compacts and stretches the brass a lot, and the brass gets hard when its "worked". So case life is impacted.

Some guys have dies that have bushings that neck/reduce/size the neck according to their wishes. Works the brass less. Done perfectly, with very uniform brass, or neck turned brass, you can then just shove a bullet in the neck and you are good to go.

But some of us are not shooting a gun that has perfect Lapua brass, and/or we are not interested in neck turning every case. So just sizing from the outside (bushing), is not quite right. Imagine then that the "thicker parts" of the neck are now "on the inside". It will grip a bullet, but its inconsistent from round to round.

Enter, the mandrel. You can buy them in .001" increments, and run them into the case after its been sized from the outside. A mandrel pushes the irregularities of the neck back out to the outside, thus improving neck tension consistency. Why is a mandrel better than a sizing ball or expander? They both perform the same basic function.

Well, for first, the makers of mandrels are more exact in their dimensions. And the normal expander balls are more variable.

But also: Pulling the expander back out of a case tends to lengthen/elongate the case. This can cause problems with chambering at times. The mandrel will do the opposite, it pushes the shoulder BACK a touch. So you have less chambering issues.

In the end, there is no one proven solution. But there a lot of very good shooters using mandrels as the last step.
b
Thank you for the explanation. This is pure theoretical but turning the necks and using a mandrel as well wouldn’t improve accuracy even more? With the mandrel you are pushing the irregularities on the outside. By turning the neck you ensure near perfect neck. Would that matter when the bulked is fired?
 

MOOSE39465

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Nov 11, 2010
Messages
478
Location
Petal, Ms
I am more interested in getting the case to fit properly into the chamber. I only bumping the shoulder back so that the brass fits snugly into the chamber. It don’t really matter what die you use to achieve proper fit. Right now in using a rcbs fl die with the expander ball removed. After resizing brass to use a Wilson mandrel to open up case neck so bullet seats into brass no more then 2 thousand neck tension. Hope this helps
 

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