Help me understand.

[jimbires]

If that's the case, you need a moa scope mount.

but what if they want a 100 zero ?

one of the rifles has a 20 moa rail that I bedded to about 33moa , that one still has 5 moa under the zero . the other rifle has a 40 moa .

 

[jimbires]

Tex , I think if I can explain the SFP . the reticle does not change with the magnification setting . the target image changes behind the reticle .


I was wrong above when I said turning the power down on a FFP scope would allow the shooter to see the target better , this all changes together . when the reticle hid the target , these guys would bracket the target .

 

[Tex_Hunter]

wrong . the SFP scope will not loose any of the reticle no matter the power it's set on . I couldn't remember what brand of scope these guys use , it came to me , they use Athlon . I just went to the athlon site and here is a pic of the same reticle at 4 power and at 30 power . I doubt I can find a pic to show you of a SFP scope reticle at min and max power because it doesn't change . the MOA of the hash marks do change according to the power setting . half the magnification is double the MOA .

Ares ETR 4.5-30×56 APLR2 FFP IR MOA | Athlon Optics

Did I say that? No I didnt. I said the grid will show the EXACT same number of grid lines on the SFP and FFP (at max magnification) assuming everything else is the same (ie. same reticle, same FOV, same max magnification etc). You know this is true because the subtensions of the SFP reticle are calibrated at max magnification. Thats how the math works out, it really is that simple.

Case in point:

Nightforce ATACR 4-16x Mil-C F2 has 10 Mils of elevation holds visible (regardless of magnification level)

Nighforce ATACR 4-16x Mil-C F1 the exact same 10 Mils of elevation holds at 16x (its actually almost 13 because the full reticle extends out of the field of view) and over 30 mils visible at 4x magnification

Hopefully that makes more sense?

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Tex , I think if I can explain the SFP

No, just stop... your multiple posts in this thread demonstrated that that's the last thing you need to be doing.

 

[jimbires]

did you look at the Athlon scope reticle I linked above ? this is the ONLY FFP scope I have ever looked through . if others are different I didn't know .

 

[jimbires]

your right I'm gone

 

[DDWing]

but what if they want a 100 zero ?

one of the rifles has a 20 moa rail that I bedded to about 33moa , that one still has 5 moa under the zero . the other rifle has a 40 moa .

They would have to choose their scope accordingly.

 

[FrogFire7]

I will echo what a few other have said... the only real advantage for SFP is that the reticle is more visible on lower magnification.

FFP advantage is that the reticle is useful on any magnification.

I use primarily FFP just because that's what I bought most of. I have considered going to SFP for hunting since most of my shots really aren't far and I'd like a reticle that can be used on low mag in low light, and I rarely use my hold overs. I prefer to dial vs hold over with my reticle, if possible. Still, it's nice to have to option for a quick hold over and not worry about magnification.

I think the bottom line is pick whatever appeals to you and your hunting style, and learn the pros and cons. As with most things in life it's tough to get one thing (scope) to do everything well.

 

[JMB 1911]

I think ffp works for really long range guys who use lots of scope power target shooting. For most hunting applications and scopes under 20 hp you are going to use it maximum power after,300 yards so the substensions at different powers don't matter

 

[sp6x6]

Ive been shooting mil for last 15 years.I can rarely use my scope at max power because of mirage or other factors while hunting.Its also harder to get back on target at 24-25x. Mils are easy shoot same main rifle I know my mils by heart,can just use reticle for speed.It only takes 7 mil for me to get 1000 and easy with 10 mil rev,hunting your rarely past that. The TMR reticle is open which I really like,obscures zero,My March is small dot,have heavy cross hairs on outside.

 

[DMP25-06]

Did I say that? No I didnt. I said the grid will show the EXACT same number of grid lines on the SFP and FFP (at max magnification) assuming everything else is the same (ie. same reticle, same FOV, same max magnification etc). You know this is true because the subtensions of the SFP reticle are calibrated at max magnification. Thats how the math works out, it really is that simple.

Case in point:

Nightforce ATACR 4-16x Mil-C F2 has 10 Mils of elevation holds visible (regardless of magnification level)

Nighforce ATACR 4-16x Mil-C F1 the exact same 10 Mils of elevation holds at 16x (its actually almost 13 because the full reticle extends out of the field of view) and over 30 mils visible at 4x magnification

Hopefully that makes more sense?

Tex_Hunter ,

You are correct .

I have a Leupold VX-6 , 3 x 18 with Impact 29 MOA reticle , which is SFP , and a Leupold Mark-V 5 x 25 with TMOA reticle , which is FFP.
With my VX-6 , SFP , set at 18x , maximum magnification , I have 29 MOA of hash marks elevation and windage above and below , and right and left of the crosshair intersection , + a space equal to about 5 MOA (un-marked) on upper and lower , and right and left heavy crosshairs at the edges of the image , for a total of 68 MOA of sight picture .
With my Mark V , FFP , set at 18x magnification , I show exactly 34 MOA to each side of the crosshair intersection , and 34 MOA above and below the crosshair intersection , for an exact marked measurement of 68 MOA of sight picture .

I have hunted with the SFP scopes , but not yet with the FFP scopes , so I can't give a review comparison between the 2 types of systems .

DMP25-06

 

[HARPERC]

One of the biggest benefits to using a FFP scope is so you can use the reticle at any magnification for hold over (elevation) and hold off (wind), not just use the reticle for ranging targets.

How this applies to my hunting, especially as age plays a role in it.

I sit-probably exclusively here on out. Late whitetail here, pick a hillside with openings 200-800 yards away, and hope a rutting buck moves through one. Not pauses for for you to calculate range, change inputs, or dial. Time enough for you to say out loud "did you see that" to your companion/spotter digging into his lunch by 0730.

Use what you what you want, as far as equipment goes, a notebook to draw, and range those hillside openings before something appears is a superior piece of equipment over SFP vs FFP in my mind.

 

[Bravo 4]

If I frequent a place or know I'll be in one place for a period of time I will make a range card too. I was looking through an older notebook and found one I made in Colorado about eight years back. Used it to kill a bull the following year on opening morning.

 

[Troutslayer2]

One benefit of FFP that I realized when I got my first suppressor- the suppressor lowers my barrel exactly 2.5MOA. So if I am shooting without it for whatever reason I need to correct 2.5MOA and I can do that at any magnification power without thinking too much.

I thought it was pretty smart how Nighforce made subtensions in the SFP NX8 with values at 2 different powers and if I were wanting a SFP I would be looking for a reticle like that.