Help, I recently realized I don't know how to shoot.

[WildRose]

Beg yer pardon I'm not trolling you.
I've experimented with my sporter barrel 300wby with a good 4 port brake on it and have found the best and only consistent way to manage recoil and have consistent poi is preload the bipods a certain amount, as I described earlier. I'm not going to tell people to free recoil a type of rifle I do not have success free recoiling.

Your reply indicated otherwise.

I'm eager to learn how to free recoil a magnum. Wasn't the op shooting a 300rum?

I've shot the rum extensively including a couple of sporter weight factor rifles. With a decent brake managing recoil is not a problem. The more you fight them in my experience the more problem you will have.

With a 12lbs plus rifle the whole equation changes substantially vs one in the 7.5-9lbs class.

You can fight it, flow with it, or free recoil it. That doesn't mean you don't start off with a good firm mount with it pulled back well into your shoulder.

 

[LVJ76]

No offense taken, Sir. A conflicting opinion is not offensive unless it was meant to be, and that is usually made clear in the delivery. Yours was clearly not intended to offend, and I didn't take it that way.

I can see your point about how a novice shooter might mistake knowing when the gun is going to fire with making the gun fire. I must admit that I was not thinking along those lines when I wrote my post. I have found than whenever I try to make something happen, the results are not often what I had in mind. Letting it happen, and having a pretty good idea when it is going to happen, is more like what I meant. You're right - they aren't the same thing. Making the gun fire is the set-up for a bad hit, and timing the swing so that the goes bang when the sight picture is just right is what puts animals in the back of the pick-up.

"Forcing the issue" doesn't work well in most endeavors. I've spent my whole life flying airplanes ( I just retired from a long career of airline flying ) and making an airplane land will almost never produce the desired results. However, if one doesn't set up the approach correctly, and know when an airplane is going to touch down, he is pretty likely to run one off the end of the runway and have a MAJOR problem. Shooting is not much different, especially with a moving target. You kinda have to know when it's going to happen, and the rifle's trigger is a lot like the flight controls in the cockpit. A lot of things in life are that way.

Every shooter has his way and learns by practice.

When testing loads I dont always know when the gun will go off, rifle isn't moving and I just gently pull the trigger.

When hunting of course I know when the gun is going off, whether the animal is still or running, I know.

I shoot silhouette competition and we shoot offhand so I have to know when the gun must and will go off. For Smallbore Silhouette my .22 LR has a 2oz trigger pull and my High Power Silhouette 7mm-08 has a 4 oz pull. I have to know when it's going off because I am making it go off, especially when shooting with 30 to 40 mph wind gusts, the wind doesn't just move the rifle, it also moves you.

When shooting off a rest it's way different.

Again for every shooter it's different, I think each one of us finds what works for us work best by trial and error.

 

[dfanonymous]

So I realized I don't know crap about shooting big guns. This hurts a bit considering I've shot guns since I was 10yrs old.

I took my 338RUM to the range to try out my custom dial scope that leupold retrofitted. I get it dialed in by putting it on a gun rest (the kind that holds the gun and has a strap across the bottom of the butt). I put two bags of lead shot on the front legs to absorb some recoil and sight it in at 100yds.

Then I decide to go prone and shoot off a bipod at 200 300 and 400...

But all shots are at the bottom or below the paper...

Now out of time, I had to leave and think about why the rifle shot high off the rest and low off the bipod. I imagine its because the high recoiling rifle is "stuck" on that rest and is experiencing muzzle rise before the bullet departs whereas from the bipod it is kicking straight back and the top off the butt is anchored off my shoulder vs. rocking up because the bottom is trapped by a strap?

I think this issue is relative to the amount of recoil, therefore shooting a high recoiling rifle requires more skill, so where do I go to learn how to shoot right?

I obviously need to sight in from actual shooting positions , but there is probably a ton to learn so that the gun recoils off my shoulder consistently also?

Recoil management is one of the big things with any precision rifle.

Checkout sniperhide's information and google around some other areas for how to recoil management. It's not something that can be really taught 100% over the interwebs but at least you can see about how to minimize hand torque increase shoulder pressure, load a bipod if using one, and proper toe control. More basic tips being the shooting position itself and how to be back behind the gun the right way, but it depends because more field shooting or even some prs involves being in horrible shooting positions and still being able to make the shot, but, always best to get a solid foundation none the less.

 

[Golovkin]

Thanks everyone!

 

[Vinootz]

There are multiple reasons for what you experienced. The following is a list of things that can cause POI shifts with changes in position.

1) Don't use those rests. You don't shoot with them in the field and your body position when shooting from them is all jacked up to accommodate the rest. Also, if it's a lead sled and your shooting an unbraked large cartridge rifle off of it it places a lot of stress on your rifles components. It can cause things to loosen and potentially damage scopes. 2) Parallax. Absolutely needs to be adjusted for whatever distance you're shooting, especially the further out you start to reach. 3) Scope shadow/head position. If you have scope shadow it needs to be equal all the way around and your head position/cheek weld should be consistent shot to shot to make this happen. 4) Pressure on the buttstock. Google/YouTube recoil management/controlled recoil. Basically, you only need enough to load your bipod or rest and stabilize it on target. Too much can push your shots around. Too little (like free recoil-which I'm not a fan of) with a heavier cartridge and you will get hit in the face...especially with a light rifle. 5) If you're not shooting with a rear bag you should start. It not only helps to greatly stabilize your shot, but it lets the rifle recoil/ride straight back into you. If you don't shoot with one there's a tendency for the buttstock to move around. Usually down. 6) Your rifle, or at least your optic, isn't level from shot to shot. 7) Even if you have a bubble level or inclinometer on your scope your reticle may not be orthogonal to it. Meaning when the bubble reads level your reticle isn't exactly perpendicular to it and thus when you dial it doesn't dial straight up. There are multiple ways to check this. The easiest is to set it either to a plum line or draw a perfectly vertical line on a large target with a level. 8) Inconsistent trigger pull.

Regardless of the position you're shooting from, try to do the following and I would bet that things tighten up. The fundamental goals are for things to be consistent shot to shot, for you to be straight behind the rifle, and for the rifle to recoil straight back into you.

1) Get square behind the rifle. 2) If prime or shooting off a bench, use a rear bag. 3) Adjust you're parallax. 4) Consistent head position/cheek weld and Make sure scope shadow is equal all the way around. 5) Load your bipod/have solid consistent pressure into the buttstock. 6) Put a bubble level or inclinometer on your scope and make sure that your reticle is set to be perfectly vertical when it reads level. Quickly check your level or inclinometer prior to every shot. 7) Put a good trigger in your rifle and adjust it as low as you feel safe for you. No question lighter triggers let you break shots more consistently, which=less POI shift and better groups. There's lots of options out there. Personally, I use TriggerTechs set at 1.5lbs. For two of my rifles this is perfect. On one of them I wish it was 1lb. 8) Don't be surprised when your rifle goes off. You should know it's going to happen and just be ready for it. If your surprised you're going to jerk.

The bigger the cartridge the more these fundamentals matter. You can't push them around and force them to do things like you can with smaller cartridges.

I never use a rear bag. It is not likely I would ever carry one in the field or take the time to set it up if I did. I practice with a front rest(for sighting in or longer range verifications). I only have a bipod on one rifle. Most of my shooting is off hand to 200 yards anyway. For 300 plus I start to use a sand bag on the front-my pack or natural object in the field. This is a long range hunters forum so I figure I'm not the norm. The advantage I find with offhand practice is that once I have a front support I have extreme stability for precision that I normally don't have. I'd wager most folks on this forum differ from my approach because they are shooting way out there. This helps with consistency in firmness of hold(also cheek weld) no matter what rifle or caliber I shoot. Besides I dislike too much equipment.I'm a point and shoot kinda guy(travel light). 2"-4" groups offhand at 200 yards(not always-lol) keeps me in shape for any other kind of shooting with support. Further out you got to know what each particular rifle and cartridge are doing by verifying your hits with practice.

 

[Vinootz]

so.. I have noticed better groups when shooting prone off a bipod if I have a hand on the foregrip, or against the mag well to control bounce. But all the instructors have told me to keep that hand back toward my chest on the bag under the buttstock.. so I am going to test this weekend, i need to sight in a rifle. Has anyone else experienced this?

Yes I have. I always hold the fore end. Or I'll apply pressure on top of my front rings on scope. I never put my hand under butt, nor do I ever use a rear support-ever. I may not shoot bug holes or clovers all day long but I always shoot MOA or better. At long ranges you got to verify what your rifle and caliber are doing.It never hurts to re enact the unsupported techniques you will use in the moment of truth.

 

[Golovkin]

I never use a rear bag. It is not likely I would ever carry one in the field or take the time to set it up if I did. I practice with a front rest(for sighting in or longer range verifications). I only have a bipod on one rifle. Most of my shooting is off hand to 200 yards anyway. For 300 plus I start to use a sand bag on the front-my pack or natural object in the field. This is a long range hunters forum so I figure I'm not the norm. The advantage I find with offhand practice is that once I have a front support I have extreme stability for precision that I normally don't have. I'd wager most folks on this forum differ from my approach because they are shooting way out there. This helps with consistency in firmness of hold(also cheek weld) no matter what rifle or caliber I shoot. Besides I dislike too much equipment.I'm a point and shoot kinda guy-lol. 2"-4" groups offhand at 200 yards keeps me in shape for any other kind of shooting with support. Further out you got to know what each particular rifle and cartridge are doing by verifying your hits with practice.

Same here, most of my shots are under 100yds, and there is less than a second to get the sights on, so off-hand POI is my #1 concern, but I also want to have the skill set to launch one over my pack to extended ranges. Hand on forend, no butt rest is the common denominator here. I can't get a tripod to shoot the same POI as "over the pack" so I'm just practicing true field positions and seeing what I can get away with.

Academically, it looked like I had a great setup which I would be able to spin a dial to 750 yds, pull the trigger and pack elk. Field practice has shown this to be an absurd idea, because of wind, shooting position, mirage, angles etc. its just not as easy as people make it seem...

Now I'm just practicing "one shot per target" drills out in the mountains trying to get within one MOA of the bullseye and seeing what conditions allow for further distances. A stiff hard to read wind or weird shooting position really shortens up that distance.

Two takeaways:
1. Low recoil rifles have a big advantage in that they aren't as sensitive to shooting positions that may get distorted in the field.
2. Shooting long range is very difficult and takes much more practice than a guy excepts.

 

[Vinootz]

I shoot from sticks once in a while(at the range). Make sure you use them in the dirt and off the concrete that is common in shooting bays at the gun ranges. The legs seem to flex and bounce and it changes POI for sure. For hunting Craig Boddington says sticks should be used out to 150 yards. I've never used them on a hunt. Not many have used sticks more than him I'd wager. It's good you shoot offhand. When you develop the muscles to become consistent any supports are a piece of cake. But like you said long ranges require practice. If you go out past 300 you really got to verify what the rifle and cartridge are doing. To go out really far you got to get better scopes and rifles to get consistent precision. And practice,practice,practice. Believe half of what you see and less of what you hear-lol. I bet there are many wounded,unharvested animals out there with all this long range hunting. Some people have no business shooting beyond 300 yards yet they still do. When considering wind,elevation,bullet performance,shooter capability,energy,OGW,physical condition,temperature,adrenaline,angle shots,etc., one sees how fewer people should be shooting way out there.