Help dialing in loads for a newbie

[dstark]

I'm new to reloading and don't have a mentor so forgive the dumb questions: I'm trying to get some reasonably accurate loads worked up for my 243 & 308.
The best loads I have come up with so far are doing between 1.5 & 2moa and I need to do better, just not sure what is best to try next.

So far with both calibers I have loaded about 10 different loads for each caliber, all with winchester primers, hornady brass, and hornady interlock BTSP bullets. The only component I have varied so far is the charge and type of powder. (Varget, H4350 & Superformance). I am neck sizing and factory crimping with Lee dies and seating bullets to the depth recommended in the loading manual. Most of these loads have shown very poor accuracy and the best are around 1.5moa. These rifles typically do better than that with factory loads of the same bullet weights.

I'm thinking of trying different bullets next (brand and weight), possibly different primers, and maybe play with seating depth.
Any advice of what to try next would be appreciated.

If it helps I am using my own once fired hornady or norma brass. Cleaned in a vibratory tumbler. I'm using a Dillon 550 and trickling my powder to be sure my charges are all exactly uniform. My velocities are about as expected for the charge weights, no high pressure signs as far as I can tell right up to the max recommended loads.

 

[memtb]

Is the rifle (s) a proven shooter? And I certainly do not mean to insult…..but, are you an experienced shooter?

Determine to maximum overall length possible with your present bullet! The manuals a mostly a general rough idea of overall length (seating depth) each rifle has it's preferences! Rarely does following the book give optimal results! memtb

 

[Taylorbok]

Erik Cortina has some great load dev videos. He lays it out in a way to give you a systematic approach to the process so you aren't bouncing all over the place. I'd also be curious has the rifle ever shot any ammo better than that?

 

[dstark]

Yes these rifles both shoot some factory loads right at 1 moa. Other factory loads are worse. If I could match or exceed factory loads I'd be pleased.

 

[Taylorbok]

Ya watch the Cortina videos and follow his method, That will get you there.

1) Determine max BTO length
2) Powder ladder test
3) seating depth test
4) Fine powder test
-Done-

 

[skinny pedal]

i would recommend work with one rifle at a time. find the bullet you want to use and the powder then look up the Scott Satterly ladder test and try it assuming you have a chronograph you can use. find the node or nodes and stick with that load but play with your seating depth until you get max. accuracy. sometimes the rifle wont like the bullet chosen or maybe the primer or brass but this should certainly get you going in the right direction.

 

[Petey308]

Right up front, I HIGHLY recommend you full length size your brass. Consistency is key with reloading and full length sizing ensures your brass stays as consistent each time you load as possible. Quality brass helps a ton to make finding good loads fast, but you can help compensate for lesser quality brass by using the factory crimp die- at least regarding things like neck tension uniformity, bullet release timing, etc. Of you switch to better brass later, you may find the crimp is Jo longer needed. You'll just have to experiment and see. Try not to mix headstamps and lots of brass too.

Moving on….

This is how I did my load development before adding aids like QuickLoad:

As far as finding a node, using a chronograph is invaluable in order to find one efficiently without relying on group sizes alone that can be a poor reflection due to all the other variables at play.

First off, find your max OAL with the particular bullet you're going to use with the brass you'll be using. I like to start about .015-.020" off the lands, or to the max my magazine length allows. Start with either applicable lengths first and do a powder charge test first.

If you have a good/reliable chronograph, the best method to finding a powder charge node (that I've found) is to load up at least 3 rounds at a given charge weight, and work up in increments of .2gr at a time. Start at a good starting charge weight so you know you're in a safe pressure range. Run a max pressure test first if you don't know where max pressure is for a certain combo of components, otherwise just watch it as you go. I like .5gr increments when doing a max pressure test, and one round at each charge is usually adequate.

When starting your actual load development:

Shoot each 3 round group over the chronograph and record each shot's speed, the average speed of the three, the standard deviation (SD), and the extreme spread (ES). Like this:

1-
2-
3-
A-
SD-
ES-

To find the node, you're looking for a flat spot, or plateau, in velocity increase from one charge weight to the next. Plotting the average velocities on a line graph can make is much easier to see. Typically, you'll see an increase in the average speed of 20-30fps per .2gr increase in powder. When you see much less than that, or even a negative increase, that's indicative of a node. Ideally, you want to see a flat spot over a spread of half to a full grain of powder.

When you find a node, you then determine where it starts, and where it ends. It starts where the speed stops significantly rising and ends when the speed starts to significantly rise once again. You want to then load up more rounds in the middle of that charge weight range to put yourself in the middle of the node. Shoot 5-10 rounds at whatever that charge weight is to confirm (group size is important here).

Being in the middle of a good node will ensure you have wiggle room for higher SD/ES. If you have anomalies in your loads, changes in pressure due to temperature swings, etc, it will hopefully not take you out of your node and affect accuracy on target.

That's how to find your powder charge node. Sometimes, after you find your powder's charge node and you shoot for groups, and you're still not happy with the group size, you need to do a bullet seating depth node test as well. The recommended increment there is .003". For perspective, that's just under the thickness of a sheet of paper, so not much, but enough to not skip over any nodes and to not become unsafe regarding pressures, due to seating deeper and in turn reducing your internal volume. A lot of guys do seating depth tests and seat either further in or out in like .010-.020" increments, and that's not recommended for the reasons I just mentioned. This is also why I like to find my max OAL first and start there, then I can load up more rounds at my powder charge weight I found, and go ahead and start seating 3-5 at a time deeper by .003" and look for the OAL that shoots the tightest. Once you find the best group, you should be done. Just zero it at that point and record the actual MV, then true the load at distance. If all that goes well, you're ready to roll with that load.

There's also a number of barrel tuners out there now that can help tweak group sizes by tweaking/tuning your barrel's harmonics to your load. They're quite effective, and can really help reduce steps with things like seating depth and even getting as precise with the powder charge.

Hopefully all that makes sense and is useful. Good luck. There are many ways to get to the same result. You'll likely hear many here. Just keep asking questions as you have them.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

How clean is your barrel/throat or the rifle? I ask because I recently almost wrote off a rifle due to it being a 1.5 " shooter. Cleaned it really well with some JB paste and it will remain in the cabinet. I thought I knew how to clean a rifle and do it often.
If switching between bullets/powders during testing, sometimes manufacturers do not play well with others. Jackets of different materials.

Have you shot the same exact bullet in a factory load through either rifle? If so, try and get the OAL of those factory loads and then start with seating testing at lower end powder charge. Once you have seating in a comfortable spot, then work up a charge weight test.

 

[Justice1327]

What are your bullet weights?
Here are a few .308 loads I have found that work well in most rifles. Over 50k reloads and these rarely fail to impress depending on the distance…but these are match bullets too.
Winchester or Federal brass
COAL 2.81
Fed210 or CCI 200 primers
155gr: 45.4gr of IMR4895 or 46.5gr of Varget
168gr: 43.5gr of IMR4895 or 44.5 gr of Varget
175 gr: 42.5 gr of IMR 4895 or 43.5-44.5gr of Varget or 42.5-43.2 gr of IMR4064 or 41.5-42.0 gr of H4895 (H4895…NOT IMR)

For .243 87-95gr bullets I like H4831sc. But Varget and IMR 4064 will do you well too.

 

[Allen Kitts]

I agree with skinny pedal work with one gun at a time. Use the knowledge you pick up on the first one on the second rifle. Definitely try more bullets, some guns just don't like certain bullets.
Always remember the reloading manual is a guideline to follow, start off low and work your way up in the powder column that way you keep you fingers and eyes. Petey 308 laid it out pretty good for ya. Follow his advise and you should come out with some decent loads. Its always a work in progress at least it is for me and I've been doing it for about 45years. Good Luck.

 

[bpcrshooter]

for the 308, I have used 175gr SMK's, 210M's, hornady/fed brass, 44.5gr of varget, that load has very seldom let me down. In my AR10 I reduced it to 42gr same seat depth....030 off the lands

 

[RichCoyle]

i would recommend work with one rifle at a time. find the bullet you want to use and the powder then look up the Scott Satterly ladder test and try it assuming you have a chronograph you can use. find the node or nodes and stick with that load but play with your seating depth until you get max. accuracy. sometimes the rifle wont like the bullet chosen or maybe the primer or brass but this should certainly get you going in the right direction.

Follow skinny's advice.
Then, once you get the bullet shooting as good as you think it will, load up as many primers as you have with three or five and check these. Realize, if you are a good shooter and the first two are not close together, the next one won't help. Maybe try this same test again to verify the primer which gave the best results repeats.

Like Pete says, a barrel tuner can save a bunch of time. One time I had a guaranteed 2MOA rifle. I used the idea if two arent close make and adjustment. That rifle became a three shot 1" rifle at 300 yards.

 

[338 dude]

Completely different caliber, rifle, etc. this is just an example of the two groups. The only thing different is the change in bullets.

 

[Roughrice]

I agree with almost all of the suggestions above.
For 308:
Varget is your huckleberry with 165-175 grain bullets at around 44+/- grains and popular non-magnum primers like CCI 200 or Fed 210, and maybe WLR and Rem 9 1/2.
If you don't have a way to find distance to lands or measure your chamber…Full length size with .002 bump (or just until it closes without resistance) and seat to book recommedations at first.

Forget the crimp for now!!
That could be one of your issues. Incorrect or inconsistent crimping can make you miserable.

You should get something pretty good with that and then fine tune as described afterwards.

Best of luck!!