Head space getting longer

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

You can also lap the top of the shell holder and remove .001 or .002 at a time until your cases chamber.
And if you need to lap the top of a shell holder to get a case to chamber the rifles headspace did not increase.

keep in mind belted magnum , can only shave the shell holder until the belt bottoms out

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

is the cartidge a 7mm Remington magnum or a Weatherby magnum , or something else

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/206.pdf (( page 252/375 ))

a 7mm rem mag is supposed to be 2.1253 + .005 - with a .420 at shoulder datum

7mm weatherby magnum is at 2.1080 _.005 -- with a .420 at shoulder datum

 

[bigedp51]

keep in mind belted magnum , can only shave the shell holder until the belt bottoms out

By placing a feeler gauge between the deck of the shell holder and the base of the case this will push the case further into the die. And from the OP figures from post #10 a .002 to .004 feeler gauge should be just right. When the correct thickness feeler gauge if found then the same thickness can be lapped from the top of the shell holder.

I would also check inside the base of the die in the belt area and make sure nothing is blocking upward movement of the case. The problem might be cured with a few swipes of a tooth pick.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Taking some off the bottom of the die solved this problem for me. This is not scary as some are making it appear. You check what a fired case measures at the shoulder. Then you size the case till it measures that. If it does not go into the chamber easily simply turn the die down a couple thousandths and try it again. It's not difficult.

 

[cdherman]

...and I annealed the older cases using tempilaq 475 about 1/2" down from the shoulder, putting the case in a socket and battery drill, spinning it at the tip of the blue flame and waited for it to go clear and gave it a 2 count before pulling it from the flame.

Well, I use tempilaq 700 IIRC, and I am nearly certain that 475 is WAYYY too cool. So we are back to the assertion that your neck brass was TOO stiff and your expander ball was pulling the shoulder back out.

You might correct the problem for now by lapping .002 off the shell holder, but I am worried you will get split neck or case head separation later.

Belt mags are finicky, from what I have read, with regards to multiple reloadings. Lots of negative press out there. But, on the other had, the 7mm RM is just about perfect in my opinion, in terms of case to bore capacity, and it shoots very well for many many people. We can start the list of cartridges that have tried to unseat it, few with any manner of success. My 280 AI is nearing completion. My 7SAUM project was a bust. My cousin's stupid factory 7 RM shoots under 1" with all the hand loads I have ever delivered to him, many far tighter. He makes fun of my other efforts.....

28 Nosler is going to be interesting over time I suppose....

 

[MagnumManiac]

If shoulders are being pulled forward by an expander ball, the simplest method to fix this is to dry lube the ID of the necks with powdered graphite. I run a proper sized nylon brush into the necks a few times prior to sizing with expanders. Only a light dusting on the brush is required.
I run many belted mags, including 3 Weatherby cases. Weatherby case design appears to repel sizing forces and springs more than normal shoulders. I have this same issue with 270 Weatherby, 300 Weatherby & 375 Weatherby. The 375 was the worst culprit due to having an absolute minimum chamber, just .002" above minimum spec in head to shoulder. My die would NOT size the case to absolute minimum, only .004", so after trying several methods I bought another shell holder and turned .010" off the TOP of it and using feeler gauges was able to get to minimum spec where the cases would chamber.

I also do not think you annealed your cases correctly, it takes heat AND time to do this correctly. I use 600*F for 6 seconds to anneal my brass, and get that perfect deep gold on the necks and partway into the shoulder and the rainbow about 1/4" below the shoulder/body juncture.

Hope this helps and gives you some insight into what MAY be the issue.

Cheers.

 

[GW Hunter]

So after not having any more hair to pull out I decided to send the die back to RCBS for polishing. Got it back yesterday and the problem is solved. Resized the new (fired once) brass and pushed the shoulder to the same and correct length on every case.

When I resized my much fired annealed (for the first time) brass it did push the shoulder back, but to inconsistent dimensions. Differences of up to .006 (from 2.116 to 2.122). Is this because the brass was inconsistently heated? Any opinions?

 

[MagnumManiac]

So after not having any more hair to pull out I decided to send the die back to RCBS for polishing. Got it back yesterday and the problem is solved. Resized the new (fired once) brass and pushed the shoulder to the same and correct length on every case.

When I resized my much fired annealed (for the first time) brass it did push the shoulder back, but to inconsistent dimensions. Differences of up to .006 (from 2.116 to 2.122). Is this because the brass was inconsistently heated? Any opinions?

Yes, I would say that the different hardness due to not annealing adequately is the problem. Hard brass resists sizing and springs back more.

Cheers.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

So after not having any more hair to pull out I decided to send the die back to RCBS for polishing. Got it back yesterday and the problem is solved. Resized the new (fired once) brass and pushed the shoulder to the same and correct length on every case.

When I resized my much fired annealed (for the first time) brass it did push the shoulder back, but to inconsistent dimensions. Differences of up to .006 (from 2.116 to 2.122). Is this because the brass was inconsistently heated? Any opinions?

i also think this will help you , it may seem expensive
but this is how many different cartridges that one #6 kit will do

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...m-300-winchester-magnum-338-winchester-magnum

• 223 WSSM
  
• 6mm-300 WSM
  
• 25-300 WSM
  
• 25-300 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 257 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 257 STW
  
• 264 Winchester Magnum
  
• 6.5mm Remington Magnum
  
• 6.5mm STW
  
• 6.5mm-300 WSM
  
• 6.5mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 6.5mm-300 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 270 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 270 WSM
  
• 270-300 Winchester Magnum
  
• 270-300 Weatherby
  
• 270-300 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 284 Baer
  
• 7mm Remington Magnum
  
• 7mm Remington SAUM
  
• 7mm WSM
  
• 7mm Weatherby Magnum
  
• 7mm Hart Magnum
  
• 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 7mm STW
  
• 7x61mm Sharpe & Hart
  
• 7x66mm Vom Hofe S.E.
  
• 7mm- 300 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 7mm-300 Winchester Magnum
  
• 7mm-300 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 7mm-350 Remington Magnum
• 30 Hart Magnum
  
• 30-338 Winchester Magnum
  
• 30-8mm Remington Magnum
  
• 30-350 Remington Magnum
  
• 300 H&H Magnum
  
• 300 Winchester Magnum
  
• 300 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 300 Mashburn Magnum
  
• 300 Jarrett
  
• 300 Remington SAUM
  
• 300 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 300 WSM
  
• 308 Baer
  
• 308 Norma Magnum
  
• 8mm Remington Magnum
  
• 8mm-338 Winchester Magnum
  
• 8mm-300 Winchester Magnum
  
• 8mm-300 WSM
  
• 8x56mm Mannlicher
  
• 338 Winchester Magnum
  
• 338 Baer
  
• 338 Jarrett
  
• 338-308 Norma Magnum
  
• 338-300 WSM
  
• 338-8mm Remington Magnum
  
• 338-300 Winchester Magnum
  
• 338-350 Remington Magnum
  
• 340 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 338 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 35-8mm Remington Magnum
• 35-338 Winchester Magnum
  
• 35-300 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 35-300 WSM
  
• 350 Remington Magnum
  
• 358 Norma Magnum
  
• 358 STA
  
• 9.3x74mm R
  
• 9.3mm Wilson
  
• 375 H&H Magnum
  
• 375 Mashburn Magnum
  
• 375 Weatherby Magnum
  
• 375-300 Winchester Magnum
  
• 375-300 WSM
  
• 375 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 375-8mm Remington Magnum
  
• 375-338
• 375-350 Remington Magnum
  
• 416 Remington Magnum
  
• 416-300 Remington Ultra Magnum
  
• 416-300 WSM
  
• 416 Hoffman
  
• 416 Taylor
  
• 416 Express
  
• 425 Express
  
• 450 Ackley Magnum
  
• 450 Marlin
  
• 455 Webley
  
• 458x2" American
  
• 458 Winchester Magnum
  
• 470 Capstick

 

[CA48]

So after not having any more hair to pull out I decided to send the die back to RCBS for polishing. Got it back yesterday and the problem is solved. Resized the new (fired once) brass and pushed the shoulder to the same and correct length on every case.

When I resized my much fired annealed (for the first time) brass it did push the shoulder back, but to inconsistent dimensions. Differences of up to .006 (from 2.116 to 2.122). Is this because the brass was inconsistently heated? Any opinions?

Yes, if brass is inconsistently annealled your shoulder bump and neck tension will vary.

This can be frustrating. I had the same problem with my 6.5x47 body die. The solution was send it to my gunsmith and have him take .015" off the bottom of the die.

 

[bigedp51]

i also think this will help you , it may seem expensive
but this is how many different cartridges that one #6 kit will do

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...m-300-winchester-magnum-338-winchester-magnum

The Redding competition shell holders will make the problem worse. These Redding shell holders will push the case from .002 to .010 "LESS" into the die. These shell holders are designed for dies that will push the case shoulder back excessively with press cam over.

Example with the standard RCBS shell holder with a deck hight of .125 and my RCBS .223 die it will bump the shoulder back .007. But with the +.004 Redding competition shell holder and press cam over the case shoulder is only bumped back .003 for my AR15.

Bottom line, if the case shoulder is not being bumped back far enough you lap the top of the shell holder. And this pushes the case further into the die for more shoulder bump. "BUT" if the shoulder is being pushed back too far you use the Redding competition shell holders and still have press cam over.

Also if you pause at the top of the ram stroke for 4 to 5 seconds this greatly reduces brass spring back. And if you use a expander die the neck of the case will be expanded on the upstroke of the ram and not "pull" the cases longer.

Below is a Lyman type M expander that I use on my Lake City 5.56 cases for my AR15 rifles. I do not anneal these cases but I do lube the inside of the case neck with powdered graphite.

NOTE, I buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 cases and size then the first time with a small base die. Then thereafter I size them with a standard die and never have a problem with shoulder location.

 

[GW Hunter]

Thanks to everyone for helping me out with this one. Seeing as how the newer brass resized properly, I don't think there is an issue with the die or shell holder, (although I am going to purchase the die kit that Dusty noggin posted). I am convinced now that I need to learn how to properly anneal brass. I will move questions with that to a new thread. Thanks again....

 

[okie man]

I assume you're not shooting the scrap out of that gun if its 30 years old. I'd just scrap any brass with more than 3 firings and buy new quality brass to replace those

 

[GW Hunter]

I assume you're not shooting the scrap out of that gun if its 30 years old. I'd just scrap any brass with more than 3 firings and buy new quality brass to replace those

It has less than 1000 rounds through it... I'm shooting more than normal right now as I'm trying to develope a copper load for California. Other than that it's not a gun that I take to the range every week.