Head space getting longer

[gohring3006]

Make sure you are using the same shell holder as you always have.
There is a method called partial full length sizing, by setting up your full length die to just size the neck and not bump the shoulders. This will actually stretch a case, so your die lock ring has moved, or you used a different shell holder, or???
You can test it by using a candle or lighter to smoke a case, then run it thru your die and see what's going on, by observing where the carbon from the lighter has been removed and where it hasn't.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

Ok... so i annealed my brass for the first time. I believe I did a pretty good job for the first time, nice even, light color change just below the shoulder. Resized the brass and the length did not change (still long) so I decided to buy a new box of Weatherby brass. Reloaded it, shot it at low to medium loads (no pressure signs on any component). Came home, deprimed, cleaned and measured the brass. 2.118" from the base to midpoint of the shoulder. Ran one case through the die (with the expander ball removed) and it came out measuring 2.122". This die has always pushed the shoulder back to 2.120. Nothing has changed. The die is locked tight. I use the cam over method, so it cannot be set any lower anyway... HELP!!! Am I just losing my mind on this one????

maybe your brass did not get annealed enough , did you use tempilaq to verify temperature , use on the inside
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100735354/tempilaq-temperature-indicator-2-oz


or , polish your expander ball , making sure to not take off any material ...

or might be fighting inner donuts at neck shoulder junction ( are some harder than others to pull back over the expander ball ) ??

you could measure for donuts in the neck , plus making sure your case body isnt getting too thin with one of these


i am suprised that your chamber is only 2 thou over a full length size , and that you have any brass flow anywhere


edited out -- noticed case after suggestion *** belted magnum ** not good idea for grinding shell holder

 

[boscodog]

maybe your brass did not get annealed enough , did you use tempilaq to verify temperature , use on the inside
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100735354/tempilaq-temperature-indicator-2-oz


or , polish your expander ball , making sure to not take off any material ...

or might be fighting inner donuts at neck shoulder junction ( are some harder than others to pull back over the expander ball ) ??

you could measure for donuts in the neck , plus making sure your case body isnt getting too thin with one of these


i am suprised that your chamber is only 2 thou over a full length size , and that you have any brass flow anywhere

- in this instance , if you can guarantee all of your own measurements are correct - i would grind either my die or my shell holder and never use it for anything but that rifle - but thats i me , what you do is your decision

or get some gauges to check your headspace , and verify the chamber isnt too tight
go -- https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007250815/ptg-headspace-go-gauge

no go --https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007256343/ptg-headspace-no-go-gauge

Tagging in

Tom

 

[GW Hunter]

My bad.. my repeatedly FIRED cases have always been 2.120" and then once resized the shoulder has always been pushed back to 2.118". The fired case that I mention was a brand new, once fired case that has not been stretched to the full chamber dimension yet... After one firing the shoulder was at 2.118" and after full length resizing it grew to 2.122". Same shell holder as always and the expander ball removed from the die. The die is in the same position as it has always been.... I can get the 2.122" case to chamber with a little muscle (although more than I am comfortable with), anything longer does not chamber.... I've been reloading this rifle for nearly 30 years and have never had this issue. Is it possible that the die has worn out? I find that hard to believe...

 

[gohring3006]

My bad.. my repeatedly FIRED cases have always been 2.120" and then once resized the shoulder has always been pushed back to 2.118". The fired case that I mention was a brand new, once fired case that has not been stretched to the full chamber dimension yet... After one firing the shoulder was at 2.118" and after full length resizing it grew to 2.122". Same shell holder as always and the expander ball removed from the die. The die is in the same position as it has always been.... I can get the 2.122" case to chamber with a little muscle (although more than I am comfortable with), anything longer does not chamber.... I've been reloading this rifle for nearly 30 years and have never had this issue. Is it possible that the die has worn out? I find that hard to believe...

Time to look st the rifle. Check bolt lugs.

 

[GW Hunter]

...and I annealed the older cases using tempilaq 475 about 1/2" down from the shoulder, putting the case in a socket and battery drill, spinning it at the tip of the blue flame and waited for it to go clear and gave it a 2 count before pulling it from the flame.

 

[GW Hunter]

gohring3006, what would I look for regarding the bolt lugs?

 

[gohring3006]

gohring3006, what would I look for regarding the bolt lugs?

Galling, but with all the unanswered questions, I would have a Smith look at it, or just retire it.

 

[bigedp51]

I'm amazed that someone would advise the OP to retire the rifle because they "think" the rifle is out of headspace limits. Most rifles when you look at the SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing it lists headspace as min and max with .010 in between. You have GO and NO-GO gauges for setting up new rifles and a Field gauge to tell you you have gone past the .010 max allowable headspace settings.

In post #10 the OP states the cases are .002 to .004 longer after full length resizing.

This isn't rocket science the resizing die for some reason is not pushing the case shoulders back as far as it once did. When you full length resize the case shoulder is squeezed forward until it contacts the dies shoulder and is pushed back down. Meaning the OP is not pushing the case shoulder below the red dotted line in the drawing below for some reason. And the fix is simple, readjust the die for the correct amount of shoulder bump.

New rimmed and belted cases are noted for having the case shoulder short of where it should be. And new cases by the SAAMI drawing can have .008 variation in shoulder location. And the amount of case lube on the case and in the die can also effect shoulder location.

So clean the die and wipe the case shoulder and neck before sizing and adjust the die for the correct shoulder bump. And don't worry about what the shoulder location was the last time you reloaded the cases. It could be slop in the press, lube buildup inside the die or operator error.

 

[gohring3006]

I'm amazed that someone would advise the OP to retire the rifle because they "think" the rifle is out of headspace limits. Most rifles when you look at the SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing it lists headspace as min and max with .010 in between. You have GO and NO-GO gauges for setting up new rifles and a Field gauge to tell you you have gone past the .010 max allowable headspace settings.

In post #10 the OP states the cases are .002 to .004 longer after full length resizing.

This isn't rocket science the resizing die for some reason is not pushing the case shoulders back as far as it once did. When you full length resize the case shoulder is squeezed forward until it contacts the dies shoulder and is pushed back down. Meaning the OP is not pushing the case shoulder below the red dotted line in the drawing below for some reason. And the fix is simple, readjust the die for the correct amount of shoulder bump.

New rimmed and belted cases are noted for having the case shoulder short of where it should be. And new cases by the SAAMI drawing can have .008 variation in shoulder location. And the amount of case lube on the case and in the die can also effect shoulder location.

So clean the die and wipe the case shoulder and neck before sizing and adjust the die for the correct shoulder bump. And don't worry about what the shoulder location was the last time you reloaded the cases. It could be slop in the press, lube buildup inside the die or operator error.

The op can do whatever he wants. It's a 30 year old rifle that has issues. I'm stating what my options would be. I don't try to keep dying things alive, maybe he wants to, maybe you want to, I really don't care.

 

[GW Hunter]

My die is set up for the ram to cam over at the top of the stroke. The shell holder makes contact with the bottom of the die, it cannot be set any lower... I am perplexed... I am sending the die back to RCBS in the morning and having it polished.... I am hoping something is sticking that is causing it to stretch when the case is being pulled from the die.

 

[gohring3006]

My die is set up for the ram to cam over at the top of the stroke. The shell holder makes contact with the bottom of the die, it cannot be set any lower... I am perplexed... I am sending the die back to RCBS in the morning and having it polished.... I am hoping something is sticking that is causing it to stretch when the case is being pulled from the die.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[bigedp51]

You can polish the die yourself by chucking a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop in a drill, Then apply J&B bore paste, automotive rubbing compound, Mothers Mag Wheel polish etc. to the mop.

You can also lap the top of the shell holder and remove .001 or .002 at a time until your cases chamber.
And if you need to lap the top of a shell holder to get a case to chamber the rifles headspace did not increase.

Chamber and dies vary in size, my guess is you have a die that is simply not pushing the shoulder back far enough. Meaning a chamber close to minimum headspace and a die with its shoulder location slightly longer than your chamber. And lapping the shell holder will fix your problem.

I see this all the time at savageshooters.com, someone will rebarrel their rifle and use a new case as a headspace gauge and add a piece of scotch tape on the back of the case. Their next post is they full length resized their cases and the cases will not chamber.

 

[243winxb]

When sizing a fired case, at the top of the stroke, take a flash light and look for day light between the die and shell holder.

Turn the fl die down more.