Has Montana general deer tag become a waste of money?

[hesse]

They won't limit tags even if it is the proper thing to do it cuts into profit. Michigan is a prime example of that . They offer a combo buck tag that allows you to shoot any buck with horns over 3 inches. The second tag has to have 4 points on one side for the second tag. they also allow you to buy 1 for tag a DAY for a lot of the units for like 60 days. When they first started this it was a management tool the tag was $1on they are $20 A tag that is profit over management in my opinion

 

[Wallrat]

I wonder if this is the real complaint.

I can understand a population increase.
I can understand not enough predator conservation.

…but it sounds like the total complaint is: "I can't pull of the side of the road, and shoot a deer, and thus I'm sad."

Yeah gee. You really nailed me there. I hope you're pleased. I don't get to wander around the woods as much as I want to…doing weeks long hunts while wearing Sitka gear head to toe. Some shite about working my *** off to feed the family and pay the bills.

 

[dfanonymous]

Yeah gee. You really nailed me there. I hope you're pleased. I don't get to wander around the woods as much as I want to…doing weeks long hunts while wearing Sitka gear head to toe. Some shite about working my *** off to feed the family and pay the bills.

I'm not here to get you.
I was being interrogative, for the purpose of rooting out all the BS and getting to the main point.

Regardless of the reason, it's across the west. Human development, weather, predators, poor management, over hunting, and a variety of other reasons have contributed to the declines. According to biologist reports I've looked at over the years.

While, pulling off the road and shooting an animal certainly isn't my idea of hunting anyways, those days are long gone, outside of private lands and select honey holes that don't stay very honey for long, that's pretty much anywhere out west now.

 

[adam32+P]

I find it comical that all the Californians moving to "your" State get blamed for the decades long mismanagement of game.

If so many Californians moved to Montana then our hunting in California should be excellent by now with everyone in Montana. Nope, more crowded and more hunters than ever before here.

Everyone wants more hunters and more support for our sport...until opening day rolls around.

 

[laker]

I find it comical that all the Californians moving to "your" State get blamed for the decades long mismanagement of game.

If so many Californians moved to Montana then our hunting in California should be excellent by now with everyone in Montana. Nope, more crowded and more hunters than ever before here.

Everyone wants more hunters and more support for our sport...until opening day rolls around.

Everyone likes to talk about hunter numbers are down across the United States. The drop is in the east. Western hunting is as popular as it ever has been and needs no recruiting

 

[Wallrat]

I'm not here to get you.
I was being interrogative, for the purpose of rooting out all the BS and getting to the main point.

Regardless of the reason, it's across the west. Human development, weather, predators, poor management and over hunting, and a variety of other reasons have contributed to the declines. According to biologist reports I've looked at over the years.

While, pulling off the road and shooting an animal certainly isn't my idea of hunting, those days are long gone, outside of private lands and select honey holes that don't stay very honey for long, that's pretty much anywhere out west now.

Agreed. Road hunting isn't hunting. It's filling the freezer. That's my priority. After I have something hanging, I can relax and enjoy the hunt. Until then I'm perfectly happy to pop a deer from as close as possible.
There was a place we hunted for years, near Whitehall. We always saw elk there early season. The last two years we hunted there, we saw maybe one set of tracks. It's been cleaned out. We'd go back later, expecting that they hadn't moved down yet…they never did come. That herd has left, or been killed out by hunting and wolves. It's roughly the same everywhere we've always gone. The only elk I see now are on ranches, or in thickets that're nearly impossible to hunt. Yes, that makes me sad, and bitter.

 

[belldar]

I find it comical that all the Californians moving to "your" State get blamed for the decades long mismanagement of game.

If so many Californians moved to Montana then our hunting in California should be excellent by now with everyone in Montana. Nope, more crowded and more hunters than ever before here.

Everyone wants more hunters and more support for our sport...until opening day rolls around.

I miss the days out hunting after opening weekend and being the only one hunting. I miss the days when there was no OnX and you had to read a map and understand boundaries. I mis the days Of normal range shooting and no one thinking they could shoot over 300 yards. I miss not seeing backpackers in all the good ole honey hole bedding areas. I could go on for ever about how I would give anything to have hunting the way it was growing up. Lots of things contribute to the way it is today. Covid forced some people out more. Money and technology allows more to go out. I can't blame people for wanting to do the things I have always loved but it dose not mean I like it. Add some terrible management practices and the political money grabbing aspect surrounding management now days and you have the perfect Show. I see it here and it is everywhere now. Big buck contests make poor hunters shooting and leaving lesser deer they shot because they wouldn't win their local contest. The baiting and none baiting debate! Eradicating/extremely thinning a deer population for fear they might get CWD(dumbest thing I ever witnessed), or cause other deer to get CWD and not focusing on CWD survival. EHD. Weather. I Feel there is way more wrong with the Big game hunting scene now days than There is right. I have more to rant about but a long paragraph might be enough for now.

 

[Rick Richard]

I miss the days out hunting after opening weekend and being the only one hunting. I miss the days when there was no OnX and you had to read a map and understand boundaries. I mis the days Of normal range shooting and no one thinking they could shoot over 300 yards. I miss not seeing backpackers in all the good ole honey hole bedding areas. I could go on for ever about how I would give anything to have hunting the way it was growing up. Lots of things contribute to the way it is today. Covid forced some people out more. Money and technology allows more to go out. I can't blame people for wanting to do the things I have always loved but it dose not mean I like it. Add some terrible management practices and the political money grabbing aspect surrounding management now days and you have the perfect Show. I see it here and it is everywhere now. Big buck contests make poor hunters shooting and leaving lesser deer they shot because they wouldn't win their local contest. The baiting and none baiting debate! Eradicating/extremely thinning a deer population for fear they might get CWD(dumbest thing I ever witnessed), or cause other deer to get CWD and not focusing on CWD survival. EHD. Weather. I Feel there is way more wrong with the Big game hunting scene now days than There is right. I have more to rant about but a long paragraph might be enough for now.

And I wonder the eventual effects of all the influx of people coming into our country. They will need a place to live and eat.

 

[laker]

In 2011 Montana sold 91,397 resident conservations licenses and 120,330 non resident conservation licenses for a 211,727 total

In 2021 Montana sold 287,734 resident conservation licenses and 289,597 non resident conservation licenses for a 577,331 total.

365,604 more people out hunting and fishing in 10 years. If divided evenly between all the counties that's an extra 6,528 people hunting and fishing in each county. Wonder why it feels crowded out there

 

[Old Rooster]

I moved here in Montana in 1998 and I had plenty of elk and muley deer to choose from.Now just seeing an animal is exciting.
A few years ago Public land where I hunted was sold without any notice until a few months before hunting season.We have to apply for and pay for our picks by March 15th.I had to change hunting spots real quick.No elk but got a nice Muley.
It won't be long before hunting will be something we used to do in the good ole days.

 

[doug2080]

Not sure what's happens to our local deer herds here in Montana but think it's a combination of too many cats and giving out way to many tags. Talked to a local biologist this past season and he verified that the mule deer numbers are lower than he's seen in over 25 years. Asked him if he thought it was due to sickness and he said some but he believes that's it more due to over harvesting and that the state is inflating it's numbers to get more out of staters to buy more B tags. Seems to be more about money for the Montana FWP then it is conservation and they have severely damaged the deer quality in the state.

 

[Rosebud]

Hate to say it guys but you are describing Alabama 30 years ago. There are wildlife management areas all over Alabama. Nearly a million acres of national Forest land. All taken over by new hunters and out of state hunters. Cheap licence for non residents then. Alabama is half the size of Montana with 8 + million people. We figured out that if you wanted to hunt deer that weren't being chased by someone every day you worked together and leased property. Lease two or three thousand acres between 10 or 15 guys was the way to go. Or 1000 acres between 5 guys. works pretty well! Most of Alabama is thick woods or river bottom swamps, with1.5 million deer. There's good hunting to be had you're just going to have to work for it now!

 

[laker]

Not sure what's happens to our local deer herds here in Montana but think it's a combination of too many cats and giving out way to many tags. Talked to a local biologist this past season and he verified that the mule deer numbers are lower than he's seen in over 25 years. Asked him if he thought it was due to sickness and he said some but he believes that's it more due to over harvesting and that the state is inflating it's numbers to get more out of staters to buy more B tags. Seems to be more about money for the Montana FWP then it is conservation and they have severely damaged the deer quality in the state.

You've got one of the good biologists then. Ours on the eastern part of the state say we are knocking mule deer management out of the park. Sat through a meeting with them in December where they put on a presentation stating that. Funny how all the people at the meeting and everyone that called in is seeing something different

 

[birddog 68]

In 2011 Montana sold 91,397 resident conservations licenses and 120,330 non resident conservation licenses for a 211,727 total

In 2021 Montana sold 287,734 resident conservation licenses and 289,597 non resident conservation licenses for a 577,331 total.

365,604 more people out hunting and fishing in 10 years. If divided evenly between all the counties that's an extra 6,528 people hunting and fishing in each county. Wonder why it feels crowded out there

With a increase of hunters this big plus the uptick of four legged predators it's definitely going to hurt the deer population.
The state agency will have a hard time fudging their numbers in a few more years without change in tag allotment.