Hammer hype?

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Varmint Hunter

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Having spent several years working in Barnes ballistics lab and fielding thousands of complaint calls in the early 2000's about no expansion ok'd the X bullet, bullet diameter entry and exit, yet they are telling me about they're dead animal. Back then people didn't realize the X was expanding, petals simply sheared off due to impact velocity, dead is dead right? To make the customers happy, copper composition was adjusted so the TSX would retain 100 percent weight at 25 yds from muzzle in gelatin. Problem solved. Just curious why 20 years later people are willing to pay premium prices for a product they may have tried, and condemned, for poor performance and the Hammer performs exactly like the much earlier X bullet's did, and the Hammer is such an amazing product. I have not used Hammer bullets, wondering if I can be swayed to try them. Thanks in advance
I really don't see much difference between the price of a Barnes TTSX bullet and a Hammer Hunter bullet. So if that's the comparison than you're not paying a premium for the Hammers.

The Hammer is "an amazing product" because it produces less pressure than most monos (IMO), is seating depth insensitive, is easy to find an accurate load for, does not load your bore with copper fouling AND is very effective at harvesting game. What is amazing is that one bullet can have so many attributes.

Like most on this site, I spend a considerable amount of money on my hunting excursions. The last thing I want to save money on is the bullet. I continue to shoot Barnes, Hornady and Nosler bullets but have gravitated to Hammers for most (not all) of my hunting needs.
 

UplandFreak

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AND is very effective at harvesting game.
There was a pig hunting video posted on this site not long ago where he was shooting hammers with a 6.5 creedmoor and his observation was they were performing like an FMJ.

 
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M70280AI

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Some of you guys kill me on these threads. Why can’t you just state your experience n opinion and be done. Do you really think your gonna change anybody’s mind about something they’ve had a good experience or bad with. Then come the insults. I’ve seen my grandkids get past a disagreement faster then some of you guys. I have a feeling these discussions would be different in person. I must add that I do find it entertaining 😂
There’s definitely one guy here that has an axe to grind...
 

Winfwt338-06

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Washington
I really don't see much difference between the price of a Barnes TTSX bullet and a Hammer Hunter bullet. So if that's the comparison than you're not paying a premium for the Hammers.

The Hammer is "an amazing product" because it produces less pressure than most monos (IMO), is seating depth insensitive, is easy to find an accurate load for, does not load your bore with copper fouling AND is very effective at harvesting game. What is amazing is that one bullet can have so many attributes.

Like most on this site, I spend a considerable amount of money on my hunting excursions. The last thing I want to save money on is the bullet. I continue to shoot Barnes, Hornady and Nosler bullets but have gravitated to Hammers for most (not all) of my hunting needs.
Varmint, when hunting I will always use a premium bullet, it's what does the killing. $20 + a box more for same number of pills is 50% more. For some may not be a big deal. I intend to try Hammers this year as I like the features you defined, as have several others who replied. Been shooting Barnes since 1991 without having to go 50 yds from where shot on anything. Almost 50 yrs old, must be getting set in my ways. Thank you for your input, hopefully my 338-06 likes the Hammer, after all it's name is Thor!
 

Bravo 4

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I use Sierra Game King and have fantastic performance. No expensive fancy crap for me. I will never understand why everyone thinks you must have a custom bullet with some fancy name. Sierra has been in business longer that most of the others combined. Guess bragging at the coffee shop is not cool unless you have a fancy name to brag about.
Yes the Sierra Gameking is a great bullet, if used right, and very economical. However by your logic if you drive anything other than a Prius as a daily driver (unless hauling) or use anything other than traditional archery instead of a new compound bow, just because the older-simpler items are cheap but work...then you’re a hypocrite. The only thing that makes contact with the animal is the bullet, it does all the killing. So why not use what you think is “best”. So what if that’s Sierra, Berger, Hornady, or Hammer?
Sorry if that sounds like I’m calling you out, just going off what you posted.
 

Varmint Hunter

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There was a pig hunting video posted on this site not long ago where he was shooting hammers with a 6.5 creedmoor and his observation was they were performing like an FMJ.

In all fairness there is also a poster here (Zen) who is a prolific pig shooter. He has posted dozens of videos with his kills and often includes the necropsies. He has spoken very highly of the various Hammer bullets that he used on pigs of all sizes. He shoots an AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor.

My personal experience with the Hammers is limited but its all been good.
 

UplandFreak

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In all fairness there is also a poster here (Zen) who is a prolific pig shooter. He has posted dozens of videos with his kills and often includes the necropsies. He has spoken very highly of the various Hammer bullets that he used on pigs of all sizes. He shoots an AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor.

My personal experience with the Hammers is limited but its all been good.
That is his video - he is the one who said they performed like an FMJ 🧐
 

HARPERC

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.....There was a pig hunting video posted on this site not long ago where he was shooting hammers with a 6.5 creedmoor and his observation was they were performing like an FMJ......
You mean the one the bullet wasn't recovered, the wound channel wasn't explored to see penetration depth, or expose the damage because of the mess.

The one from the absolute rear of the animal, classified as a "Hail Mary", that turned the pig upside down, immobilized, and had it dead in under 30 seconds.

The one you still haven't provided your preference for a 6.5 100 grain class, bullet for making that type of shot, on that size game.
 

Doc88

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Florence, SC
I gotta say that I read this whole thread and I am pretty impressed with the civility. There is always a few that seem to come unglued.

To the OP. I think the petals on look better in the marketing pic. The old Partition, I think is the perfect terminal performance design. That is what we set out to make with pure copper. Because of the pure copper design we see less meat damage compared to the lead since the shed petals are much more robust in size than the shed lead. The lead is nearly a liquid and when it is impacted at high vel it turns into a "mist" for lack of better words. That is where the blood shot meat comes from. Finding a copper that we could get consistent shedding and deformation in a huge range of impact velocities was difficult. When we found the alloy that we currently use it made a huge diff in on game performance.

I get the complaint about bc's. We do every now and then see a rifle that tanks the bc from what we normally see. It is very frustrating to say the least. We recently figured out what causes it. I had a customer reach out to me that was shooting our 88g 6mm Hammer Hunter in a custom 6mm Creed. He was shooting just over an inch at 720y but was needing 3 moa more correction for the drop than what should be needed according to our listed bc. We went over everything that he was doing and he was spot on. Dang near like shooting the bullet backwards! In the conversation it came out that he had a 243 win that was nearly a twin to the Creed accept the Creed was intentionally bored 1 thou tighter. He had done this because he has seen better accuracy with this when shooting competition. He was willing to do some testing so he loaded the 243 win and it ran spot on with the listed bc out to the 720y. Great data! It then dawned on me what was happening. So we quickly designed a bullet with a secant ogive and sent them to him to test. He worked up loads in both rifles that were running within 10 fps of each other. With the secant ogive the two rifles shot within 1" of each other at 720y with the same correction. Really great data! So what we have figured out now is the tangent ogive, that most of our bullets have, is being engraved further out in front of the shoulder the tighter a bore is. This distortion of the ogive of the bullet in front of the shoulder is causing very negative effects on the bc. I think we are seeing more adverse effects from higher number of grooves too. Haven't proved it though. With the secant ovgive test bullet the difference in the amount of engraving forward of the shoulder is minimal. Thus little to no change in bc between the two rifles and the resulting bc being what would be expected.

With this knowledge we have begun testing a bullet design that will not allow distortion of the ogive in front of the shoulder. Also at the same time testing some different ogive designs to see if we can get some increase in bc. So far testing is going quite well. We have gained significant muzzle vel with this design and a little bit of bc. We have a couple more ogive designs to test for bc before we settle on one and create another full line of bullets. So far we have worked with .224 cal and 7mm projectiles and see parallel results in several rifles. The vel gains are significant across the board. So far we are seeing 200-300 fps gain over conventional bullets of the same weight. In our 27" barreled 280ai, 8" twist Excalibur barrel we are getting 3300 fsp with a 151g projectile, comfortably. Nosler shows 3107 fps as their fastest in the 280ai with a 150g bullet. Hodgdon shows 2952 fps as their fastest load with 150g bullet. Our test shooter running the 22 cal projectile saw the same kind of vel increase and also a small increase in bc, mirroring our results.

Hate to come out with a new line of bullets, but the day we quite trying to find better ways will be a bad day. With that said we will not get rid of any current offerings. They have been stellar performers for the vast majority of shooters using them.

Thanks to everyone for a thread that did not turn into a fight.
I personally thank you for the continued input and the strive to make a better product. I have used your bullets some and while I have had to adjust BC some all has worked out positively. The terminal performance of the Hammers is what keeps my attention and the fact that you respond and keep pushing to improve. Medicine did not begin with the heart transplant and neither did ballistics begin with perfect data. You start, you learn, you improve and move on . No doubt the Hammer Bulllet line, when it is all said and done, will be the best terminal performance and most ballistically correct line of projectile to evolve in some time.
 

Ingwe

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Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
949
I gotta say that I read this whole thread and I am pretty impressed with the civility. There is always a few that seem to come unglued.

To the OP. I think the petals on look better in the marketing pic. The old Partition, I think is the perfect terminal performance design. That is what we set out to make with pure copper. Because of the pure copper design we see less meat damage compared to the lead since the shed petals are much more robust in size than the shed lead. The lead is nearly a liquid and when it is impacted at high vel it turns into a "mist" for lack of better words. That is where the blood shot meat comes from. Finding a copper that we could get consistent shedding and deformation in a huge range of impact velocities was difficult. When we found the alloy that we currently use it made a huge diff in on game performance.

I get the complaint about bc's. We do every now and then see a rifle that tanks the bc from what we normally see. It is very frustrating to say the least. We recently figured out what causes it. I had a customer reach out to me that was shooting our 88g 6mm Hammer Hunter in a custom 6mm Creed. He was shooting just over an inch at 720y but was needing 3 moa more correction for the drop than what should be needed according to our listed bc. We went over everything that he was doing and he was spot on. Dang near like shooting the bullet backwards! In the conversation it came out that he had a 243 win that was nearly a twin to the Creed accept the Creed was intentionally bored 1 thou tighter. He had done this because he has seen better accuracy with this when shooting competition. He was willing to do some testing so he loaded the 243 win and it ran spot on with the listed bc out to the 720y. Great data! It then dawned on me what was happening. So we quickly designed a bullet with a secant ogive and sent them to him to test. He worked up loads in both rifles that were running within 10 fps of each other. With the secant ogive the two rifles shot within 1" of each other at 720y with the same correction. Really great data! So what we have figured out now is the tangent ogive, that most of our bullets have, is being engraved further out in front of the shoulder the tighter a bore is. This distortion of the ogive of the bullet in front of the shoulder is causing very negative effects on the bc. I think we are seeing more adverse effects from higher number of grooves too. Haven't proved it though. With the secant ovgive test bullet the difference in the amount of engraving forward of the shoulder is minimal. Thus little to no change in bc between the two rifles and the resulting bc being what would be expected.

With this knowledge we have begun testing a bullet design that will not allow distortion of the ogive in front of the shoulder. Also at the same time testing some different ogive designs to see if we can get some increase in bc. So far testing is going quite well. We have gained significant muzzle vel with this design and a little bit of bc. We have a couple more ogive designs to test for bc before we settle on one and create another full line of bullets. So far we have worked with .224 cal and 7mm projectiles and see parallel results in several rifles. The vel gains are significant across the board. So far we are seeing 200-300 fps gain over conventional bullets of the same weight. In our 27" barreled 280ai, 8" twist Excalibur barrel we are getting 3300 fsp with a 151g projectile, comfortably. Nosler shows 3107 fps as their fastest in the 280ai with a 150g bullet. Hodgdon shows 2952 fps as their fastest load with 150g bullet. Our test shooter running the 22 cal projectile saw the same kind of vel increase and also a small increase in bc, mirroring our results.

Hate to come out with a new line of bullets, but the day we quite trying to find better ways will be a bad day. With that said we will not get rid of any current offerings. They have been stellar performers for the vast majority of shooters using them.

Thanks to everyone for a thread that did not turn into a fight.
FWIW: Steve did a Load Development for me using his 155gr Hammer Hunters in my 26" 1:8" 7mmRemMag. He sent me back the rifle shooting a 200 yard 3 round cluster at 3,260fps without excessive pressure.

I would say that that isn't too shabby for a 7mmRemMag with 155gr bullets
 
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