RockyMtnMT
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Not 4400 fps!He meant to say the 124 HH
Hammer bullets
- Thread starter Elkhuntn247
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Gday
Yep you get it I gave up with bergers due to erratic results
The need to secure quickly & preferable on the spot is ever so important with tahr & chamois to a lesser extent also west or east coast also a little bearing
Elkhuntr247
What area are you going ?
Are you going with a guide as they will sort you out no doubt if solo I made a few mistakes of looking high as most of the good billies were not up on top
shot placement is part of the equation & study their anatomy with that time of the year the mains on billies are starting to fill out a bit so placement is a touch back from the summer ones I say just aim far leg if you can see it
Potentially you will stretch your barrel & watch those winds but most shots are under 500 ( once again the area you go will dictate this a bit ) some of my longest shots
& I'll put my longest for reference in here which was 1232 meters on tahr but I will admit I missed 2 shots prior to working out the wind & I can't emphasise enough practice & practice @ weird angles along with a few offhand shots as they are also a possibility so great to be prepared just incase
Overall may is a pretty good time to go as the boys are getting starting to get a little amorous but not full on
Wishing you the best
I'll never hunt tahr country again but so many good memories & if you'd like any other info just ask & hopefully I can help
I love tahr hunting man it's cool & shot one or two
Cheers
Now this is what I'm talking about
Yep you get it I gave up with bergers due to erratic results
The need to secure quickly & preferable on the spot is ever so important with tahr & chamois to a lesser extent also west or east coast also a little bearing
Elkhuntr247
What area are you going ?
Are you going with a guide as they will sort you out no doubt if solo I made a few mistakes of looking high as most of the good billies were not up on top
shot placement is part of the equation & study their anatomy with that time of the year the mains on billies are starting to fill out a bit so placement is a touch back from the summer ones I say just aim far leg if you can see it
Potentially you will stretch your barrel & watch those winds but most shots are under 500 ( once again the area you go will dictate this a bit ) some of my longest shots
& I'll put my longest for reference in here which was 1232 meters on tahr but I will admit I missed 2 shots prior to working out the wind & I can't emphasise enough practice & practice @ weird angles along with a few offhand shots as they are also a possibility so great to be prepared just incase
Overall may is a pretty good time to go as the boys are getting starting to get a little amorous but not full on
Wishing you the best
I'll never hunt tahr country again but so many good memories & if you'd like any other info just ask & hopefully I can help
I love tahr hunting man it's cool & shot one or two
Cheers
I can only imagine what bean was saying to you in relation to your 2nd favourite chambering but I'm confident it would be the 124
Stay tuned people I have a feeling that Steve's new favourite combo will change soon especially once he is looking a buff down the nose from 20& in
come on July 
& then he will need no more 
Cheers
Elkhuntn247
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2016
- Messages
- 103
Fordy,Gday
Now this is what I'm talking about
Yep you get it I gave up with bergers due to erratic results
The need to secure quickly & preferable on the spot is ever so important with tahr & chamois to a lesser extent also west or east coast also a little bearing
Elkhuntr247
What area are you going ?
Are you going with a guide as they will sort you out no doubt if solo I made a few mistakes of looking high as most of the good billies were not up on top
shot placement is part of the equation & study their anatomy with that time of the year the mains on billies are starting to fill out a bit so placement is a touch back from the summer ones I say just aim far leg if you can see it
Potentially you will stretch your barrel & watch those winds but most shots are under 500 ( once again the area you go will dictate this a bit ) some of my longest shots
& I'll put my longest for reference in here which was 1232 meters on tahr but I will admit I missed 2 shots prior to working out the wind & I can't emphasise enough practice & practice @ weird angles along with a few offhand shots as they are also a possibility so great to be prepared just incase
Overall may is a pretty good time to go as the boys are getting starting to get a little amorous but not full on
Wishing you the best
I'll never hunt tahr country again but so many good memories & if you'd like any other info just ask & hopefully I can help
I love tahr hunting man it's cool & shot one or two
Cheers
We are going DIY. Most likely gonna chopper into the Sinclair range
Never been to NZ, and it's been at the top of my list since I was a kid! We were supposed to go in May 2020… but then they invented Covid. Hopefully nothing gets in the way this time.
Hoping to learn a lot while I'm there, gonna have to come back with my fly rod at least once
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
I'll add, Mr beans videos in YouTube are helpful and down to earth regarding reloading with hammers.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I ran the 177 Hammer and Berger 195's in my 28 Nosler, best combination available from inside 100 to a mile plus on elk.
Only mono I've ran that did the internal damage nearing the Berger, meat loss is pretty much the same, penetration in close favors the Hammer, windy conditions and elr elk favor the Berger. Never had to shoot an elk twice with either bullet.
Only mono I've ran that did the internal damage nearing the Berger, meat loss is pretty much the same, penetration in close favors the Hammer, windy conditions and elr elk favor the Berger. Never had to shoot an elk twice with either bullet.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
I killed 4 deer and an elk with the 195 bergers, and 2 deer and 2 elk with the 169 Hammers out of my 28 Nosler. I liked them both honestly. For long long range I'd still use the berger for sure. For closer range (700 yardish and in) and wanting to take any shot angle presented, the hammers would be a great choice. I had the 169's up at 3330fps at one point with N570 and a trued BC of about .24 G7.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Gday
Cheers
Nice if you want send me a pm with your number & a couple times to ring & I'll walk you through where most of the better billies or bulls as others also call them tend to hide out that time of the yearsFordy,
We are going DIY. Most likely gonna chopper into the Sinclair range
Never been to NZ, and it's been at the top of my list since I was a kid! We were supposed to go in May 2020… but then they invented Covid. Hopefully nothing gets in the way this time.
Hoping to learn a lot while I'm there, gonna have to come back with my fly rod at least once
Cheers
Elkhuntn247
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2016
- Messages
- 103
I'll take all the help I can get! I'll drop you my number
Gday
I better nip this in the butt before it gets out of hand & hope this puts a bit into perspective on how anal I am
I'm not disputing bergers ability to kill as I've killed a lot with them & just wasn't happy with the erratic opening / results some openings delayed as much as 10 in but a lot @6 plus on chital ( axis to you guys I think you call them ) now this is not the norm i get that but it's enough it's noticeable when your shooting side by side with other pills & results are better from that pill by a fair bit ( I think berger was one category down on my data sheets than my favourite frangible yet still killed quite respectable )
I tried cleaning hp cleaned meplat up & had trouble getting a consistent opening even on fairly similar resistance the tahr in NZ are not overly a big critter ( chamois smaller ) but the terrain they inhabit can be extremely treacherous & I lost the most amount of tahr with bergers yes they died but I couldn't get to them as they walked stumbled off the cliff faces once hit I switched back to amax & the % lost was reduced if I did my part & probably why I had my moment of finally someone gets it yep probably should've shut up but I don't like editing as if I've said it I'll own it & apologise if needed
We mainly use to hunt in mid July & crampons we're a must to try & stay on the cliff faces i liked to hunt , my mates not so much ( I was nicknamed a mountain goat for some reason lol )
I'm not disputing the bergers will kill & are far better @ longrange that up close especially once hp cleaned ( looks like they have a different approach now
) & it's a bit of my own problem I get that as if a pill one minute opens say @2 in then 8 in how can you have consistent results not in my world & just ask Steve how painful I am when I evaluate a pill yep I want more than that , yep I push to find the holy grail but it won't be possible that I'm sure but man the pills I'm seeing on the market today are very impressive compared to yesterday's on the whole
I can see on the bigger critters & I've got no right to comment on there ability to kill elk as I've not done that but our samba ( elk size roughly) the Berger were used a lot myself included & a huge amount have been killed with them but over time & failures the Berger popularity has shrunk ( before supply issues ) & I've still got mates that use them & we go head to head all the time lol so I'm used to it but I also say its potentially the hide & mud on our samba that causes issues I don't know but it dosent fit with chital & fallow but rusa are somewhat similar so I'm not sold on that's effecting the Berger so I just stay away from them now
Now I'm not a longrange shooter anymore apart from these darn prototypes as I'm stretching the barrel back out again on my rum to try & get data for Steve & settle my curiosity more than anything on pill design for terminal results as how low these pills will work to not open & while the pill may work the velocity may just be to low to create enough trauma
So before this prototype came down under I thought no mono had a chance of competing with a good frangible & most monos ( mushroom variety ) are poor below 2100 but 2400 I liked to keep them
1800 on the hammer is a good number but the good frangible will consistently open @ 1600 but Berger is not it imo & by open I mean work /kill not just open a little or nose over & tumble
It's just what I've found over my years nothing scientific just measure the impact to tip & do autopsies to see what's opening where , the type of bubble the pill producers & then smack another & see how it compares again & again
I hope that is clear on my position if your having good results with Berger I say it's only time
Na shoot what anyone wants it's all cool but I'll go into bat for a consistent pill design over erratic even if the erratic is a small % yep I find weaknesses in a pill then exploit that weakness in critters to see how it actually does preform
Man in some other thread I was even defending c&c yep I'm for using the best you can but if your within brand x pills very good results I will leave alone as it will kill well across so many resistances
Hope that helps on where I come from & I've had some great conversations with some incredible minds over the years & I've eaten crow a lot of times over it so I'm not always right either but I've learnt a heap , I think these conversations are going to be hard here but we will see it seems to have calmed a little lately
No offence intended to anyone
Cheers
I better nip this in the butt before it gets out of hand & hope this puts a bit into perspective on how anal I am
I'm not disputing bergers ability to kill as I've killed a lot with them & just wasn't happy with the erratic opening / results some openings delayed as much as 10 in but a lot @6 plus on chital ( axis to you guys I think you call them ) now this is not the norm i get that but it's enough it's noticeable when your shooting side by side with other pills & results are better from that pill by a fair bit ( I think berger was one category down on my data sheets than my favourite frangible yet still killed quite respectable )
I tried cleaning hp cleaned meplat up & had trouble getting a consistent opening even on fairly similar resistance the tahr in NZ are not overly a big critter ( chamois smaller ) but the terrain they inhabit can be extremely treacherous & I lost the most amount of tahr with bergers yes they died but I couldn't get to them as they walked stumbled off the cliff faces once hit I switched back to amax & the % lost was reduced if I did my part & probably why I had my moment of finally someone gets it yep probably should've shut up but I don't like editing as if I've said it I'll own it & apologise if needed
We mainly use to hunt in mid July & crampons we're a must to try & stay on the cliff faces i liked to hunt , my mates not so much ( I was nicknamed a mountain goat for some reason lol )
I'm not disputing the bergers will kill & are far better @ longrange that up close especially once hp cleaned ( looks like they have a different approach now
) & it's a bit of my own problem I get that as if a pill one minute opens say @2 in then 8 in how can you have consistent results not in my world & just ask Steve how painful I am when I evaluate a pill yep I want more than that , yep I push to find the holy grail but it won't be possible that I'm sure but man the pills I'm seeing on the market today are very impressive compared to yesterday's on the whole I can see on the bigger critters & I've got no right to comment on there ability to kill elk as I've not done that but our samba ( elk size roughly) the Berger were used a lot myself included & a huge amount have been killed with them but over time & failures the Berger popularity has shrunk ( before supply issues ) & I've still got mates that use them & we go head to head all the time lol so I'm used to it but I also say its potentially the hide & mud on our samba that causes issues I don't know but it dosent fit with chital & fallow but rusa are somewhat similar so I'm not sold on that's effecting the Berger so I just stay away from them now
Now I'm not a longrange shooter anymore apart from these darn prototypes as I'm stretching the barrel back out again on my rum to try & get data for Steve & settle my curiosity more than anything on pill design for terminal results as how low these pills will work to not open & while the pill may work the velocity may just be to low to create enough trauma
So before this prototype came down under I thought no mono had a chance of competing with a good frangible & most monos ( mushroom variety ) are poor below 2100 but 2400 I liked to keep them
1800 on the hammer is a good number but the good frangible will consistently open @ 1600 but Berger is not it imo & by open I mean work /kill not just open a little or nose over & tumble
It's just what I've found over my years nothing scientific just measure the impact to tip & do autopsies to see what's opening where , the type of bubble the pill producers & then smack another & see how it compares again & again
I hope that is clear on my position if your having good results with Berger I say it's only time
Na shoot what anyone wants it's all cool but I'll go into bat for a consistent pill design over erratic even if the erratic is a small % yep I find weaknesses in a pill then exploit that weakness in critters to see how it actually does preform
Man in some other thread I was even defending c&c yep I'm for using the best you can but if your within brand x pills very good results I will leave alone as it will kill well across so many resistances
Hope that helps on where I come from & I've had some great conversations with some incredible minds over the years & I've eaten crow a lot of times over it so I'm not always right either but I've learnt a heap , I think these conversations are going to be hard here but we will see it seems to have calmed a little lately
No offence intended to anyone
Cheers
Gday
Thanks for that I love watching these I've seen a few of yours now ( man 12/18 months ago I didn't have a clue how to watch or search now I've got the app I'm set lol )
Keep up the great work & I'll keep watching I just very rarely comment on them
Cheers
Thanks for that I love watching these I've seen a few of yours now ( man 12/18 months ago I didn't have a clue how to watch or search now I've got the app I'm set lol )
Keep up the great work & I'll keep watching I just very rarely comment on them
Cheers
Longrangers
Well-Known Member
Know what your max yardage is that you are comfortable taking a shot at and then talk to hammer bullet about it. I considered trying them as well but after talking with Steve and discussing what I was doing I am not changing. From what I learned was hammers have their limitations as per Steve.
john k
Well-Known Member
I have been shooting Hammers for 2 years now but this has been my first season hunting with them. Whitetail hunting in SE USA. I was shooting 140 AB's in my 7-08 and 160 AB's in my 280AI with very good results for more than a few years. Switched to 120 HH's in my 7-08 and 143 HH's in my 280AI. Better accuracy and speed in Hammers, but most of all, excellent results. I will continue to shoot Bergers off season punching paper (they are fast and accurate) due to less $, but during hunting season, it is Hammer Time!
