Hammer bullets

PredatorSlayer

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Does it make more sense to “tolerate” a lower BC, or “compensate” for a bad wind call? Seems like either way you’re making a compromise, so why wouldn’t you opt for a compromise which offers more consistent and predictable expansion on impact?

I do - I shoot the eldx. Its been awesome for me both near and far.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/long-range-shootout/
 

PredatorSlayer

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And yes my 124 hh are better to 500 which is about depending on the charge I am running either side but it has less wind drift and less drop at that distance. Than my other option the 147eld. So yes they are better it’s after that that the eld will be better. So in the 500 yard I say give or take depends on a lot of factors but do you kill more game over 500 or under?

man, the last few years it has been over 500 yards for me. But some of that is choosing not to get in closer and some of that is the terrain in idaho, shooting over canyons and what not. Look, shoot what you want. I love Bergers and ELDXs. They have been awesome performers for me at all ranges. In the terrain I hunt in, I need to have something that can knock the wind out of something from 50 yards to 1000 yards. Is there a perfect bullet for that? Probably not, bergers and eldxs have been my best bet.
 

snox801

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I suppose if I lived out west it would be a different thing. But I certainly wouldn’t wouldn’t use my creed much. Lol
I’ve had great luck also with the eld. Took my orxy with it. Berger is just a bit to soft for my taste for African game. That was the main reason I switched to hammer. I had less than ideal performance on all 3 rounds I collected from it last one was for good measure. It did take it down rather quick but it was only 172 yards.
I gotta say I love this site cause you can have civil conversation with people and nobody gets to bent out of shape if you don’t fall in line with what they think is right.
 

JD284win

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I will start by saying nice shooting and congrats on the buck.

You can't make our bullets come undone no matter how fast the impact. The are designed to shed the nose. Generally 3 our 4 pieces. We have seen some heavy blood now and then but it is usually in the membrane of the meat and not actually in the muscle itself. This blood can be scraped off and the meat is usable. Meat damage was the reason we got to this point of making bullets. I wish you had some pics of the shoulder. It looks like this buck, because it did not die instantly bled into the exit hole and collected a lot of blood under the shoulder and in the wound channel.

Sometimes weird things happen.

As to the bc. The bc numbers that we have work very well at our atmosphere. Lower elevation seem to have a tougher time. It also will vary fairly dramatically from one rifle to another. Has to do with what the barrel does to the bullet. We are on the wait list for the new Oehler bc calculation system. Can't wait. We really are not worried about what the bc is. Just want to be accurate. We have seen twin rifles show 1.5 moa diff at 1000y. When I spoke with a tech at Oehler they have seen twin rifles show 38" diff at 1000y.

I would say that the longer the bullets get for caliber the closer to 2.0 sg they should be run to get full stability.

I look forward to your next deer.
Steve. Thank you for your reply. I hope to down another deer in a week or so. I will deffineatly post an update on the next results. Even if I got to find a pig to try them on.
 

Chuckrub

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Things get messy when a bullet clips an artery in muscle tissue. The amount of blood shot meat is a direct result of how long the heart beats afterwards.
 

nugentfan

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Big thanks to Steve for the extra effort on dealing with Cali DFW. It was a two month challenge for me to get a response from LE and his encounter was equally less than easy. As of tonight it now looks like most if not all of the Hammer line is certified.
 

Buddro

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it comes down to a philosophical question. "would you rather plan on sending one through the boiler room or occasionally sending an errant shot?"

There are a hand full of studies showing that a hole of about 6mm through the cardio pulmonary tissue of most animals is sufficient to drop them within reasonable run times. (link studies that counter this if they are out them). This being established it comes to a question, "do you plan on hitting the lungs way more often than not or missing occasionally?"

If you have a lot of confidence in your ability to shoot and your bullet choice, opt for A good straight shooting, non fragmenting design like the barnes ttsx that will bore a hole through any amount of tissue to the lungs and drop the critter. However if you expect that occasionally you might happen by total coincidence and circumstances far beyond your control place a shot off the perfect line through the lungs, you may consider choosing a fragmenting design like the hammer you shot.

The massive damage that bullet did is testament to the ability of the bullet to send mass in tangential lines to the direction of the bullet path, that is a good thing. These chunks of bullet will absolutely increase your chances of finding "cardio pulmonary tissue" in the event of a poorly placed shot. (which we are all subject too).


My personal philosophical perspective, I believe that it is far more importaint to shoot a bullet that will compensate for my own occasional shortcomings and drop animals when I send bullets at less than optimal paths. I would much prefer to shoot a fragmenting design and feed my dog 50% of an occasional shoulder than shoot A penetrating design that doesnt compesnate and lose 100% of the animal that I couldnt recover.
 
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RockyMtnMT

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I have on more than one occasion shot an animal and seen the kind of sight that started this thread. Once you slog through the clotted blood and mess. I have found still very minimal meat loss. It is just a matter of scraping it off. The amount of blood that actually permeates the muscle tissue is minimal. It is not like what you see in the muscle tissue when the same thing happens with lead bullets. I made a bad shot on a muley buck that went through both hind quarters center mass. I was so disgusted that I had wasted most of this animal due to my poor shot. We de boned him to pack him out and once into the chore figured out that I had only lost about 6 lbs of meat.

I will say again...It is not possible for a Hammer bullet totally fragment. The Hammer Hunters will always retain + - 70%, depending on the nose length. We have impact tested to 4200 fps with 30 cal bullets and weight retention stays the same as an 1800 fps impact. They just squish more. The copper we use sheds the nose petals to the depth that we drill the hollow point to. We tried other coppers that would not do this. At high vel, if the hole was too deep they would spit into 3 or 4 pieces all the way to the boat tail. When the hole was shallower they would open enough at low vel. When we found the copper We currently use we were able to get the nose petals to shed throughout the impact vel range and have the retained flat noise shank that we are after. This retained shank is what we are after for good terminal performance. The petals are not. What they do is a bonus. We have seen some poor shots that would have ended poorly if it were not for a petal getting to a vital organ. So I would call that a good thing. If we were to see a bullet hold onto the petals, like what Barnes shows in there promotional material, I would almost consider it a failure. It slows the bullet penetration too quickly, limiting the amount of permanent would channel.

For guys that want high fragmentation we do offer what we call a Deaf Blow Hammer. These we drill very deep hollow points so that the bullet will retain 40-50%, depending on nose length. We have some listed on the site. We can do this with any of the Hammer Hunters. If you don't see the one you are looking for listed, just order the Hammer Hunter in the weight and twist you need and put a note in the special Instructions on the checkout page that you want them in the DeadBlow version. Now that we are finally caught up on orders we will get these listed on the site along with several new bullets that we just haven'thad time to do.
 

308stillbrass

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Hammers have performed excellent on 6 animals for me. 4 elk and 2 deer over the past two seasons. They are extremely easy to find a good shooting and performing load with probably less than 20 shots. I’ve loaded them in 4 rifles and all have been easy and quick and now shoot great.
 

snox801

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it comes down to a philosophical question. "would you rather plan on sending one through the boiler room or occasionally sending an errant shot?"

There are a hand full of studies showing that a hole of about 6mm through the cardio pulmonary tissue of most animals is sufficient to drop them within reasonable run times. (link studies that counter this if they are out them). This being established it comes to a question, "do you plan on hitting the lungs way more often than not or missing occasionally?"

If you have a lot of confidence in your ability to shoot and your bullet choice, opt for A good straight shooting, non fragmenting design like the barnes ttsx that will bore a hole through any amount of tissue to the lungs and drop the critter. However if you expect that occasionally you might happen by total coincidence and circumstances far beyond your control place a shot off the perfect line through the lungs, you may consider choosing a fragmenting design like the hammer you shot.

The massive damage that bullet did is testament to the ability of the bullet to send mass in tangential lines to the direction of the bullet path, that is a good thing. These chunks of bullet will absolutely increase your chances of finding "cardio pulmonary tissue" in the event of a poorly placed shot. (which we are all subject too).


My personal philosophical perspective, I believe that it is far more importaint to shoot a bullet that will compensate for my own occasional shortcomings and drop animals when I send bullets at less than optimal paths. I would much prefer to shoot a fragmenting design and feed my dog 50% of an occasional shoulder than shoot A penetrating design that doesnt compesnate and lose 100% of the animal that I couldnt recover.

That is why I like the hammers best of both worlds kind of. Front part comes apart and frags then the base keeps going like a Barnes. Seems to be a win win.
 

TXAoudadKlr

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The thing I liked was I had a 30cal entry and a slightly bigger than 30cal exit hole....with everything between the rib cage just mush. My buddy got similar with his 338 and a TTSX along with a base ball size exit through the shoulder.
 

CMP70306

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So I got a question for you guys as I had something interesting happen today while shooting.

5142E4CB-AA87-439B-B004-56EC3C63FE06.png


That is some kind of smoke trail coming off of the bullet which is something I’ve never seen before. It started a few yards down range and went all the way to the target as far as I could tell. Bullet was the 124 Hunter at 3200 fps in a 7 twist barrel.

Anyone else have this happen before?
 
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