Hammer Bullets - Different way of thinking????

[tdot]

This is a question to all the guys who've successfully used Hammer and other monolithic bullets.

I typically load and hunt with heavy(ish) for caliber lead bullets 180grain AB in a 308 Win, 215grain Berger in the 300WM. I've had great sucess with this way of thinking, but the last Buck I shot was at about 10 yards. It was a dead center high neck shot with the 308 and 180 grain Accubond. The bullet didnt exit. About 3 inches of the spine was vapourized. I was quite pleased with myself both for the stalk and the shot. But the internal organs were also cut to shreds and the cavity was absolutely full of blood. It wasn't till part way thru the skinning that I realized the bullet had fragmented and deflected into the chest cavity, I never found the bullet nor any signs of the shrapnel having entered the meat, but its always left me wondering.

I prefer one shot kills and have would prefer to keep it that way. I generally take neck or head shots and will wait for the shot and range to present itself that I can realistically make that happen. Even though I like to shoot LR, I always seem to hunt sub 350, or even 150 if I can.

So this year I'm considering the switch to Hammer bullets. But the more I read about the subject the more it seems that smaller faster bullets are the more appropriate way to think. Is this correct or am I missing something? 150grain in my 308 would be moving roughly 3100fps vs the 2750 for a 180. If the bullet is shedding its nose and has enough retained energy that it'll exit, then does it matter if the remains if that bullet are 120 grains or 150?

I typically shoot a 130 in my 260 Rem, should i consider a 110Hammer as a replacement?

Am I way off base?

 

[JakeM300winnie]

Your right on base! You will not be disappointed with the hammer. It's easy to work up a load, and It will produce the results your looking for. Talk to Steve, he will get you dialed in.

 

[Oi.223]

Interesting looking products. Wish they had a bit more info on the differences between the models.

 

[HARPERC]

It depends on what you consider light for caliber, a bit on what and how you hunt.

Keep any of them at 1800 fps at the target, and things should work out.

Steve tends to be a Maximum Point Blank kind of hunter, and keeping velocity high enough to hold hair farther out is usually part of his recommendation.

Mono's are longer for the same weight, and consideration to magazine length, and rate of twist are a part of the process.

Terminal performance is consistent, but the Sledge Hammers seem like they add to the picture if you don't need a ballistic profile.

Depending on magazine length the 174 .308 in the 3.34" magazine length seems to be working for folks.

I think the 120's in the 6.5/.260's seem to be a good choice. I use the 124's in my .260.

Although I have the 99 grains in a slower twist short, shorter magazine 6.5-.284, that I haven't shot, but mock up well.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have used high velocity all-copper bullets with fantastic results on deer.

6.5mm 127 LRX @ 3050 from a 6.5SLR out to 637 yards, DRT.

.257 100 TTSX @ 3650 from a .25-06AI from 160 to 488 on several deer. Longest one ever ran was 30 yards. Other dropped where they stood.

.257 100 TSX @ 3200 from a .250AI from 220, DRT.

.308 175 LRX @ 3340 from a .300RUM @ 330, DRT. 160 on an elk, DRT.

I plan on using the 6.5mm 137 Hammer in my new 6.5SS, and 124 Hammer in my new 6.5SLR.

 

[bigngreen]

I've shot both Barnes, Cutting Edge and Hammers for monos and I shoot a lot of Berger's, ELD's and some Accubonds, my preferred bullet for lethality and accuracy are the Berger's and Hammers,
I don't subscribe to the light and fast mono method because of the numbers of deflections or flat penetration stop on heavy game like elk that I've had when doing so, I have not been able to get a hammer to deflect or stop penetrating bit it's function by design is superior to any other mono I've shot.
I will run a faster twist rate just so I can shoot a heavier mono though my longer range bullet from the Berger line doesn't need it BUT you do have to keep the monos spun up so they have terminal stability in the game so I do put more importance on the right bullet for the twist rate with a mono than a cup conventional bullet. I've not gotten a Hammer to turn direcrion, Barnes and CE I could get them to turn, I had a CE turn 90 degrees in an elks neck and exit the top of the spine, fortunately it turned in the center and still cut the spinal cord but it didn't break it's neck.
For close range, precision shooting for a neck or head shot the Hammer would be my go to!!

 

[HARPERC]

.....I don't subscribe to the light and fast mono method because of the numbers of deflections or flat penetration stop on heavy game like elk that I've had when doing so, I have not been able to get a hammer to deflect or stop penetrating bit it's function by design is superior to any other mono I've shot.
...............I will run a faster twist rate just so I can shoot a heavier mono though my longer range bullet from the Berger line doesn't need it BUT you do have to keep the monos spun up so they have terminal stability in the game so I do put more importance on the right bullet for the twist rate with a mono than a cup conventional bullet. I've not gotten a Hammer to turn direction........!!

Very much agree with this, a slower pace than bigngreen, but if there are 2 camps to the mono bullet users 1) adapting them to existing set ups, 2) building a rifle around the Hammer bullet, I'm in the second as well.

When we get the 6.5 160 Hammer completely on track, I have a No.1 begging for a fast twist barrel, and no magazine issues.

 

[257Tony]

Very much agree with this, a slower pace than bigngreen, but if there are 2 camps to the mono bullet users 1) adapting them to existing set ups, 2) building a rifle around the Hammer bullet, I'm in the second as well.

When we get the 6.5 160 Hammer completely on track, I have a No.1 begging for a fast twist barrel, and no magazine issues.

Will that 160 be a sledgehammer or a hunter?

 

[HARPERC]

.......Will that 160 be a sledgehammer or a hunter?.......

https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...isited-attention-elkaholic-and-hammer.190701/

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Interesting looking products. Wish they had a bit more info on the differences between the models.

Look at the second section down.

https://hammerbullets.com/

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Leaving you wondering about lead exposure is why you're probably smart.
You'll find that the monos are generally only a bit lighter than leaded bullets. As to the lack of expansion, my experience is about 2x expansion on anything from elk to pronghorn an have never had a Barnes or Hornady fail on me from 80 - 425 yards.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

@bigngreen is exactly right with the twist rates. Part of the lighter bullet with mono's is simply due to the fact that lead is a higher density material thus the pure copper bullets are longer for the weight requiring more twist for the same weight bullets.

The gain with the "lighter" pure copper bullet is higher muzzle vel. Our Hammer Hunters have a relatively good bc for their weight. We lose some bc due to our open hollow point, but it is not worth sacrificing terminal performance to try and gain some bc. We have tried smaller hollow points and they just are not as good.

I am no different than any other guy on here. I always went for the heaviest highest bc I could get to fly accurately. Setting up my rifle for the longest possible shot. Very rarely does the longest possible shot show up. I realized that I was sacrificing short and mid range performance for the long shot that usually never came to be. With our Hammer Bullets there is no down side to high vel impacts on shorter range shots from rocket sled cartridges. Most all cup and core bullets will not do well with impact vel over 3000fsp. Hammers will always retain the same weight, high or low vel. Meat damage stays to a min and you don't have to worry about the under penetration.

When you start looking at cartridges capable of running bullets at 3500 fps give or take, and compare it to big, heavy, slow, high bc bullets that start out at 2800 fps from the same cartridge, out to 1000y. The high vel bullet will out perform in pretty much every way. With a bullet that can handle this kind of launch speed and perform predictably on game from muzzle to long range, you are a very deadly hunter. Point blank range capability to 450y and still hold hair out to 500y is like cheating.

 

[nevada75]

My backcountry/mountain gun is a Kimber Montana in 260 Rem. Tips the scale just a tad over 6lbs with scope and ammo.

I reload for it with 100gr Barnes TTSX over a charge of Varget. I've shot three large mule deer all one shot and done. Ranges were 125 to 350 yards. All bullets exited.

The most interesting was the buck at 350 yards. He was bedded and facing me but his head was turned to his right away from me. Bullet entered on his left side neck and exited the right side with a quarter sized exit wound. Bullet then entered again just behind the right shoulder smashing the 5 or 6 ribs passing thru the abdominal cavity and exited thru the bung hole. Sounds a bit like the Warren Commission, right? He instantly fell over from a broken spine but I also never again worried about these bullets expanding quickly or penetrating.

I tried both the 120 TTSX and 127 LRX but ran into magazine issues and seating issues.

I also shoot Barnes 168gr TTSX in my 308 with great results on elk out to 400 yards. After that velocity is dropping below the 1800fps I consider minimum.

However I tried various weight TTSX and LRX in my 280 Rem and couldn't do better than a 2 inch group at 100 yards. Had other issues with that rifle and decided to use it for a rifle build. Looking at a 280AI with a fast twist to shoot heavier monos.

The lessons I've learned with Barnes TTSX are 1) quick expansion and penetration are not a concern if impact velocity is above 1800fps so speed is equally important as bullet weight and 2) seating depth is critical as these bullets like to jump. Took a lot of experimenting with seating depth to find the sweet spot. It's my one complaint about Barnes bullets. To keep COAL in spec with magazine length, allow for bullet jump without seating bullets deep reducing powder capacity, and to maintain higher muzzle velocity I do favor light for caliber copper bullets.

When I get my 280AI build finished I'll start load development with Hammer bullets as folks report they're largely insensitive to seating depth.

 

[jlreff]

I've run the Barnes for years with great luck. Use 100gr in 25 cal,130 27cal,168 and 180 in 30cal. My try hammers these year, but have had such good luck with Barnes, I see no need to switch.