Hammer Bullets and twist recommendations

[RebelGuard]

After hearing and seeing so many successes with the hammer hunters I thought I might get a couple boxes for a couple of my rifles. As I was perusing their products I was noticing that they recommend a very aggressive twist for bullets that aren't even at the heaviest side of the spectrum. Particularly for the hammer hunters. Any reason for this? Can anybody share their experience with working up loads? I've ran 20-30 gr heavier bullets with the twists they're recommending for their lighter ones. I've looked across all of my reloading manuals and none of them are recommending barrel twists quite this aggressive. I tend to always prefer the heavier bullets and the weights I typically love to run are showing a twist that none of my rifles have...at least according to Hammers recommended twist.

 

[FEENIX]

Regardless of bullet, follow manufacturers' minimum barrel twist rate recommendation for bullet stability.

 

[PddPdd]

I recommend you call Hammer Bullets and talk to them regarding your question. I could give you my opinion but I didn't design their bullets so it would be best to hear straight from the designer/manufacturer.
Every bullet seems to have strong and weak points and the key is to understand those differences and apply them to the appropriate usage.
I would say that following Hammer's guidelines for twist rate will assure you see the results many shooters are ecstatic about.

For the 3 calibers I've worked up loads for (25-06, 7-08, 28 Nosler) I found the following:
1. I followed LRH member recommendations to use lighter bullets than I had shot in the past for a given caliber. Heavier bullets were not needed for terminal performance results.
2. I needed to use significantly faster powders
3. The loads provided significantly higher muzzle velocities without pressure signs
4. They are less seating depth sensitive for accuracy tuning (I don't tune beyond 1/2 MOA)
5. My group sizes were consistently reduced by 1/2. (~1 MOA to 1/2 MOA)
6. My hunting shots are inside 600 yards

I'm not saying that Hammer bullets are right for your application.

Hope that helps

 

[northhunter]

I agree with everything PddPdd said. I just want to add that a solid copper bullet will be roughly equivalent to a cup and core bullet about 15gr heavier from what I've read. A 124gr mono = ~ 139gr. cup and core.

 

[Seabeeken]

I recommend you call Hammer Bullets and talk to them regarding your question. I could give you my opinion but I didn't design their bullets so it would be best to hear straight from the designer/manufacturer.
Every bullet seems to have strong and weak points and the key is to understand those differences and apply them to the appropriate usage.
I would say that following Hammer's guidelines for twist rate will assure you see the results many shooters are ecstatic about.

For the 3 calibers I've worked up loads for (25-06, 7-08, 28 Nosler) I found the following:
1. I followed LRH member recommendations to use lighter bullets than I had shot in the past for a given caliber. Heavier bullets were not needed for terminal performance results.
2. I needed to use significantly faster powders
3. The loads provided significantly higher muzzle velocities without pressure signs
4. They are less seating depth sensitive for accuracy tuning (I don't tune beyond 1/2 MOA)
5. My group sizes were consistently reduced by 1/2. (~1 MOA to 1/2 MOA)
6. My hunting shots are inside 600 yards

I'm not saying that Hammer bullets are right for your application.

Hope that helps

^^^THIS
Im using 25 cal 75 gr HH on whitetails and get instant kills and full penetration. Same with 101 gr 7mm

 

[northhunter]

Dang those 101's must be ripping!

 

[ButterBean]

After hearing and seeing so many successes with the hammer hunters I thought I might get a couple boxes for a couple of my rifles. As I was perusing their products I was noticing that they recommend a very aggressive twist for bullets that aren't even at the heaviest side of the spectrum. Particularly for the hammer hunters. Any reason for this? Can anybody share their experience with working up loads? I've ran 20-30 gr heavier bullets with the twists they're recommending for their lighter ones. I've looked across all of my reloading manuals and none of them are recommending barrel twists quite this aggressive. I tend to always prefer the heavier bullets and the weights I typically love to run are showing a twist that none of my rifles have...at least according to Hammers recommended twist.

The length of the bullet has the most to do with this, The Hammer recommendation is dead on if it say's 8 twist it means 8 twist, FWIW you can run a much lighter pill with the same results as the heavier frangible

 

[DoneNOut]

The length of the bullet has the most to do with this, The Hammer recommendation is dead on if it say's 8 twist it means 8 twist, FWIW you can run a much lighter pill with the same results as the heavier frangible

Listen to this!

 

[Wedgy]

I shoot the 227 grain Hammer from a 7 twist 300 RUM and it is a much longer bullet than a similar weight lead bullet, the only thing keeping the bullets from flipping over and flying backwards is the spin which gives it stability, it would actually be more stable with the heavy part in front, flying backwards. Just because a bullet punches a round hole in a paper target doesn't mean it will penetrate, keep going straight, and expand properly when it hits an animal. Remember it naturally wants to flip over but the spin is preventing that. The Hammers are designed so the front tip breaks off and the remaining shank of the bullet penetrates thru and exits and the aggressive spin helps it do this. It seems that twist rate is more important to bullet performance than previously thought, especially with the larger bullet size of monos. A fast twist barrel may tear apart the jacket on a typical cup and core bullet though.

 

[GLTaylor]

All-copper bullets are typically longer than cup and core of similar weight. To get them to stabilize properly requires more twist/spin rate. We have also learned that a stability factor of 1.5 is minimal for best performance and straight line penetration. A SF of 2.0 is even better! Much testing has gone into the above statement.

 

[RebelGuard]

I had a chance to measure some Hammers to comparably weighted Hornady ELD's and found the length difference was negligible. However I didn't really think about the monolithic construction having such a big factor in the matter. Regardless, I would always rather have "too much" stabilization rather than too little. It was just quite a shock seeing such twist rates that I have never seen with any other bullet manufacturer I've come across so far. Maybe my next rifle build I'll try a really aggressive barrel twist and see how that performs with all of the old fashioned rounds. If the end result is that a faster twist runs both long, high BC bullets and shorter lower BC bullets just as good then I don't see why I won't have all of my barrels eventually replaced when they wear out. Mind you I'm talking about significant twist rate differences that were unheard of 20 years ago.. not just .5" to 1" faster that most of us have done with our newer rifles already.

 

[GLTaylor]

My last few barrels have been twisted much faster than old school barrels. My norm now is 7.5 for .257 and .264 bore. 9 for .28 and .30 bore. All I shoot now is Hammers in all of my rifles. All copper bullets are also less dense than lead and in my opinion perform much better than lead with minimal bloodshotting of meat. You will find if you go much lighter than you are used to and much faster, your results will be phenomenal!

 

[ButterBean]

My last few barrels have been twisted much faster than old school barrels. My norm now is 7.5 for .257 and .264 bore. 9 for .28 and .30 bore. All I shoot now is Hammers in all of my rifles. All copper bullets are also less dense than lead and in my opinion perform much better than lead with minimal bloodshotting of meat. You will find if you go much lighter than you are used to and much faster, your results will be phenomenal!

X-2

 

[PddPdd]

So a little more information about stability/instability as I understand it. The distance between the Center of Pressure (CP) and the Center of Gravity (CG) in a given bullet is what creates the overturning moment arm that induces instability. The center of pressure is the sum of the aerodynamic forces (drag), air pressure or vacuum, created by the bullet when passing through the air. The exterior shape of the bullet directly affects the CP and it's location on the bullet centerline axis. Ideally, one would want to get the CP aft of the CG for max stability; for all commercially available bullets I'm aware of, it's not. If CP was aft of CG, Barrel twist rates could be reduced (i.e. 1 in 20") to decrease drag in the barrel and achieve higher velocities. The conflicting requirement is how too create enough drag at the back of the bullet but not impact BC too much.

Please don't assume my knowledge of guns, shooting or hunting is greater than anyone else's. I just try to keep learning whenever I can and share when I think it might be appreciated.