Hammer Bullets and Hyper Velocity, The Misconception

[Northkill]

Agree

Get with Hammer boys and tell us what comes of it.

 

[Jud96]

Changed my mind. Ignore this.

 

[Wallie]

Butterbean I hope your Aussie friend has a better working knowledge of terminal ballistics than he does the written English language. I was very interested in what he had to say, but was very disappointed that I couldn't comprehend most of his message. Maybe you could interpret that rambling word jumble for me?
I'm pretty sure I followed his meaning through the triangle of performance, the frangible, and the bonded projectiles, but after that I was just guessing.

 

[jessej]

Just watch crocodile dundee again and then his write up will make more sense!

I do love the Australian accent

 

[Mike D Texas]

I would keep it simple. Follow the recommended velocities on the box. My Berger VLDs expand at 1300 FPS. Hammers, Hornady ELD, Nosler AB need 1600 FPS. I've seen some bullets need 1800 - 2000 FPS to expand properly. Use whatever bullet you like, just know the velocity that is needed for the bullet to expand properly. Meaning what the max and minimum velocities are.

Would you mind sharing where you found the 1300fps threshold for Bergers? I thought it was in the range of 1600-1800 fps.

 

[Wallie]

Would you mind sharing where you found the 1300fps threshold for Bergers? I thought it was in the range of 1600-1800 fps.

Me too. I'd like to do some testing of my own, but I'm pretty dang sure Berger says 1800 fps minimum impact velocity.

 

[ButterBean]

Great..maybe the 260 338 has limits, don't know. Must be an isolated event. Not knocking bullet; thought folks on this site may be interested.

I appreciate your honesty but I'd really like to figure out what happened, what was your muzzle velocity ?

 

[sp6x6]

Judd 96, I havent run into Steve in a bit,but he use to run I think a 30-338 LA or improved.But anyway it was shooting light bullet fast and the effective range far exceded 300 yrds.Which is easy to do even with lighter bullets.And the larger bores like some of the 338's a 250 gr is a lighter bullet,but this is easy to still get long range out of it. I ran and sometimes still do run a mono in thick timber.

 

[Bullmark]

I am curious how the Hammer bullets are any different than the Barnes TSX bullets. Both are monolithic and both have a simple drilled hollow point. I understand the exterior design of them are different, but the cross sections of both look similar.

Personally, I'm not sold on the light and fast ideology for big game animals. For varmints, coyotes, and deer at short range out to a few hundred yards I see them being affective. However, I think at long range having a heavy for caliber bullet that's going to rapidly and violently expand is crucial for dropping animals. The monolithics I can see being good on thick skinned game within 300 yards. I much prefer a sleek, high BC, rapid expanding bullet for mid to long range shots. Light and fast was the big deal back in the day before fast twist barrels, range finders, reliable scopes, and improved ammunition and reloading components. It still works today obviously, I just feel it's not the end all be all for every situation. Not to mention the fact the heavy, high BC projectiles will retain much more energy, velocity, and drift much less in the wind than something like a Hammer. I think they have their place, and I would really consider them if I was limited to mono-metal bullets.

I can't wait to grab some popcorn and read the responses and alternative points of view to this one.
IMO individual examples of a bullet's success or failure are largely anecdotal. And a lot of lost animals and inferred Bullet failure is pure speculation, as there is no animal to examine.
I believe shot placement probably trumps all else when it comes right down to it.
I know very little about Bullet composition and supposed behavior as it relates terminal performance. As a primary bow Hunter for many yrs, I would shoot whatever Bullet my rifle seemed to like.....and it served me well enough.
Once I got bitten by the custom rifle/long range possibilities bug, I started paying attention.
I've always shot Berger VLD's and aside from some excess meat loss, I've never had a problem. I chose them b/c that's what my rifle builder loaded up.
I became interested in the Hammers recently and decided to use them in my next rifle. That time should be in a couple of weeks.
400-500 yds is my absolute Max range and the idea of a 124gr Hammer traveling at 3700fps out of my .300wsm is appealing for a number of reasons. The biggest being the flat trajectory makes 90% of my shot opportunities a point and click proposition....with a 200yds zero.
I can't help but think the recoil pushing a 124 will be slightly easier to handle than my old go-to for a .300, which was a 180gr.
I've always thought it was better to lose some meat than the entire animal....but I'd rather not ruin an entire front half of a whitetail. Gas is over $3/gallon in my town, so filling the freezer is a priority.
So I'm gonna give the Hammers a try, and hopefully test out on a mature Missouri buck in Nov. I'd be willing to bet that if I make a good shot, the buck will be done quickly And if I hit and lose the animal, it won't be the bullet's fault.

 

[ButterBean]

Butterbean I hope your Aussie friend has a better working knowledge of terminal ballistics than he does the written English language. I was very interested in what he had to say, but was very disappointed that I couldn't comprehend most of his message. Maybe you could interpret that rambling word jumble for me?
I'm pretty sure I followed his meaning through the triangle of performance, the frangible, and the bonded projectiles, but after that I was just guessing.

The jist of it is Hammers work exceptionally at any speed per our testing, With that being said speed is the biggest multiplying factor here and we have found you can drop down a bunch in bullet weight with big speed increases and have better wound channels bang flops and so on, We have done tons of testing and posted results that it got to the point that folks thought you had to push them like we were to make them work and you do not,

 

[ButterBean]

I can't wait to grab some popcorn and read the responses and alternative points of view to this one.
IMO individual examples of a bullet's success or failure are largely anecdotal. And a lot of lost animals and inferred Bullet failure is pure speculation, as there is no animal to examine.
I believe shot placement probably trumps all else when it comes right down to it.
I know very little about Bullet composition and supposed behavior as it relates terminal performance. As a primary bow Hunter for many yrs, I would shoot whatever Bullet my rifle seemed to like.....and it served me well enough.
Once I got bitten by the custom rifle/long range possibilities bug, I started paying attention.
I've always shot Berger VLD's and aside from some excess meat loss, I've never had a problem. I chose them b/c that's what my rifle builder loaded up.
I became interested in the Hammers recently and decided to use them in my next rifle. That time should be in a couple of weeks.
400-500 yds is my absolute Max range and the idea of a 124gr Hammer traveling at 3700fps out of my .300wsm is appealing for a number of reasons. The biggest being the flat trajectory makes 90% of my shot opportunities a point and click proposition....with a 200yds zero.
I can't help but think the recoil pushing a 124 will be slightly easier to handle than my old go-to for a .300, which was a 180gr.
I've always thought it was better to lose some meat than the entire animal....but I'd rather not ruin an entire front half of a whitetail. Gas is over $3/gallon in my town, so filling the freezer is a priority.
So I'm gonna give the Hammers a try, and hopefully test out on a mature Missouri buck in Nov. I'd be willing to bet that if I make a good shot, the buck will be done quickly And if I hit and lose the animal, it won't be the bullet's fault.

Your gonna love it and I'm glad he took that post down

 

[B/2-75]

I appreciate your honesty but I'd really like to figure out what happened, what was your muzzle velocity ?

Approx 2750fps upon impact at hunting altitude. I will send the remainder to Hammer…I'd like to know also as they are very accurate in my rifle.

 

[ButterBean]

Approx 2750fps upon impact at hunting altitude. I will send the remainder to Hammer…I'd like to know also as they are very accurate in my rifle.

Copy

 

[Hard rock]

Agree

Something is definitely amiss it's nearly impossible for a 260 gr 33 cal solid copper bullet too fragment too 20 and 30 gr pieces I've shot 25cal hammers into solid back stop and recovered the shank and it weighs back 60 grs from a 90 gr moving 3800 plus fps I understand bullet blow up etc but that is nearly impossible too make happen on bone and flesh with-a hammer a report like this can give a novice in reloading and bullet performance a bad opinion and I really would hate too see that