Getting Started

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by JD338, Jan 29, 2005.

  1. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

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    Hello guys,

    I am new to this forum but not new to shooting, hunting, or reloading.
    I am very interested in setting up a long range deer caribou hunting/target rig and and would apprciate your suggestions.

    I am a Remington M700 fan and would like to start off with a M700 Sendero (I know they have been discontinued but I think I can find one for a fair price). in 300 Win Mag or 300 RUM.
    (I currently have a M700 LSS in 338RUM and love it so I already know about recoil. I don't have a problem with 20-25 rounds with 338 RUM).
    Is this rifle/caliber a good starting point?

    Next would be a scope. Thinking of a Loupold VX III 4.5x14.
    Which reticle, B&C or Mil Dot?

    Is there anything else I would need to get started? Is there something I am overlooking?

    Thank you in advance for your thoughts and comments.

    Best Regards,

    JD338
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    JD338,

    The Sendero is generally a very good factory rifle for long range shooting. Often a trigger job and perhaps a recrown and bedding job and they shoot very well.

    As for the two 30 cals you list, I prefer the 300 RUM as far as a big game round but for a long range rifle, the 300 Win is plenty and it tends to be much easier to find a match quality consistant load for. Certainly the 300 RUM can be loaded to match grade levels but the larger round is a bit more finicky as far as consistancy. If you go with the 300 RUM, I would recommend a 200 gr Accubond or a 200 or 220 gr Matchking. The heavier bullets really tame this big gun down as far as consistancy goes.

    In the 300 Win any bullet from 180 up will generally produce good consistancy. Remember, at long range is it consistancy that is far more important then shear velocity.

    As far as teh scope goes, great choice for a long range hunting scope. I would use the Mil-Dot reticle over teh B&amp;C but thats just me. I like the consistancy of the mil-dot system.

    Just as important as your rifle is an accurate range finder. Spend the money to get a quality tool such as the Leica 1200 or the new Swaro that is supposed to be even better then the Leica. Either will perform well for you.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  3. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

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    fiftydriver,

    Thank you for the reply.
    I have a FFL buddy looking for a M700 Sendaro in 300 RUM or 300 Win Mag at a decent price for me. My preference is the 300 RUM. Sounds like there are slim pickens for Senderos.
    As I mentioned, I am a Remington guy, BUT, is there something "better" I should be considering?

    As an alturnative, I have a stock (trigger job and Pachmyer Decelerator pad)M700LSS in 338 RUM that will shoot 210, 225, and 250 gr PT's under .5" for 3-4 shot groups at 100 yds IF I do my part. I currently have a VX III 2.5-8 on it. I am considering the VXIII 4.5-14 Mil Dot to get me started.

    I live in West MI so finding a place to do long range shooting is somewhat challenging. My gun club has a 300 yd range. I know of another club south of Grand Rapids that has 500 meters. My neighbor has 80 acers that I can use if I set up a safe backstop.
    Boy, I am getting fired up!

    Thanks for your help and support.

    Best Regards,

    JD338
     
  4. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    JD338,

    Sounds like your catching the long range bug. Better watch out, has been know to get way out of hand /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!!

    Your 338 RUM with a proper scope like the 4.5-14 you listed would be a serious long range option. With its factory 1-10 twist it will handle the 300 gr VLD and ULD bullets as well for true extreme range shooting. For anything under the 1/2 mile mark the 225 and 250s will perform well.

    I to am a Rem 700 man, nothing really better for the money except to build on a REm 700 for a custom rifle.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  5. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

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    fiftydriver,

    I'm a Nosler guy. Most of my rifles have never seen anything but Nosler PT and BT bullets.
    I have been playing around with the 225 gr AB and they shoot pretty good. This spring I plan on testing them at 300 yds +.
    I have been reloading for 30 years and now I have to ask a silly question.
    What are the 300 gr VLD and ULD bullets that you were refering to?
    I am still "wanting " a Sendero in 300 RUM but I will have to wait and see what my buddy can find for me.
    I live with 3 women (wife and daughters) and we have show horses so "my" budget is always the one that suffers. That is why I am working with my FFL buddy, he always cuts me a good deal.
    I shot in the DCM 600 meter shoot at Camp Perry about 20 yrs ago and got bit by the LR bug. I also shot metallic silhouette in 1997 and really enjoyed hitting those rams at 500 meters with my 280 Rem.
    I also killed my only elk in CO in 2002, a 5 pt with my 338 RUM at 350 yds.
    I have lived with the LR bug for too long and now its time I do something about it.

    Thank you for your help and support. I greatly appreciate it.

    Best Regards,

    JD338
     
  6. Deer-SWAT

    Deer-SWAT New Member

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    Jan 28, 2005
    Mule spot? help

    I am looking for a outfitter, guide, landowner, etc to either take me mule deer hunting or open the gate for me for a tresspass fee. Not necessarily looking for a monster but a nice representitive. any ideas. Note: I would rather someone open the gate for me and leave me to do it on my own. (I used to guide in alaksa - so I can probally handle myself without a babysitter). Rifle or Bow (but rifle would be better.)
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    JD338,

    VLD and ULD are simply bullet designs. VLD stands for "Very Low Drag" and ULD is "Ultra Low Drag."

    These bullets are designed strictly for use at extreme range where their long tapered boattails and long sharp pointed nose offer much better ballistic performance then conventional flat base or even boattail bullets.

    These bullets are generally very heavy for their cailber. Expamples are 107 to 115 gr 6mm bullets, 156 gr 257s, 170gr in 270, 180 gr in 7mm, 220 to 250 in 308, 300 to 350 in 338.

    They are just designed for extreme range shooting to retain as much velocity and limit wind drift as much as possible.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Fiftydriver that the MilDot reticle is superior for what you want to do. Nice thing about a MilDot is that the reticle will always be correct for what you want to do. The B&amp;C reticle for me is much harder to see in poor light, and the factory has picked your drop correction, and it probably won't match for your intended rifle. Learn to use a MilDot and understand it and you won't use anything else! You might check out Bear Basin Outfitters for the terrific prices on Zeiss MilDot scopes. I like Leupold, but would take a Zeiss or Swarovski anyday. Zeiss is the better value and cheaper than Leupold! Good luck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  9. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    JD338,

    I was recently in your same position of looking for a Sendero in 300RUM. I found a great deal on a 300WM Sendero at a gun show and my gunsmith rechambered it to 300RUM for $75. It was a really economical way of getting the model/caliber that I wanted.

    Good luck,

    Neal
     
  10. Glock119

    Glock119 Well-Known Member

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    OK Kirby,
    See what happens when you have so much knowledge. You start to over look the important little things that the new shooter may not know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    So what brands are avlaible and where do you find um? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Just thought I might coax some of that info from ya. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Thanks Ben
     
  11. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

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    Bullseye,

    Thanks for the input.
    I am curious, how can you rechamber a 300 Win Mag long action to a 300 RUM magnum action? Is this working ok for you?
    I am going to my next local gun show March 5 and will be looking for a Sendero in #1, 300 RUM, #2 300 Win Mag, #3 7mm RUM ???
    I think 30 cal would be a better choice than 7mm. The 30 cal will fill the void in my gun safe. (I have 22-250, 257 Roberts, 280 Rem, 338RUM, and 35 Whelen).

    I appreciate your comments.

    Regards,

    JD338
     
  12. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'll tell you as much as I know, however, a gunsmith like Kirby can add to the discussion I'm sure. The bolt face on the Win Mag and the RUM is the same because the RUM has a rebated rim. The action and magazine length was also long enough to accomodate the RUM. My gunsmith was able to rechamber without taking the barrel off of the action (that's why the cost was so low, if he had had to take the barrel off it would have cost a bit more, although it would have been a great opportunity to have the action trued.) The common barrel twist rate was the same between the two so that worked out as well for my needs.

    So far it appears to be working fine. I just had it done recently and have not had time to get it on the bench for accuracy.

    Hope this helps,

    Neal
     
  13. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

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    Bullseye,

    Thanks. I was aware of the rebated rim on the Ultra Mag case. I use the same shell holder for my 338 RUM and my buddies 300 Win mag. I guess I was under the impression that the 300 Win Mag actually used a standard (30-06) long action where the Ultra Mags used the magnum (375 H&amp;H) action. Kirby, can you comment?

    Good luck with your Sendero, let us all know how she shoots.
    Do you have any loads in mind? What type of shooting do you plan on using your Sendero for?
    What are you going to use for a scope?

    Regards,

    JD338
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Shadowman,

    Where do you get teh VLD and ULD bullets???

    Well, for lower velocity rounds, under 3200 fps in most occasions, Bergers VLD bullets are very quality bullets. In fast twist barrels they just tend to not like things much over 3200 fps in a 1-8 to 1-9 twist barrel.

    Hornadies A-Max bullets are much the same way as the Bergers but I call these a semi-VLD bullets. They just do not quite run with a true VLD bullet ballistically. THey do however have better on game performance at long range because their polymer tip initiates expansion better then the HP match bullets.

    Again, for over 3200 fps there are better bullets.

    Now another semi-VLD design is the Sierra Matchking. Again I call them Semi because some of their designs do not offer true VLD ballistics. Others such as the 240 gr .308 and 300 gr .338 are VLD designs.

    The Sierra Matchkings have a thicker jacket then the Bergers or A-Max bullets and will generally accept velocities 200 to 300 fps higher then these other two match bullets.

    Personally, from what I have seen testing the Wildcat Bullets, I would use these for any VLD or ULD design. These bullets offer extreme ballistic performance in the ULD family of bullets. One example is the 156 gr Rebated Boattail in .257" that I use in my 257 Allen Mag. This bullet over 500 yards has a B.C. of .810 with a muzzle velocity in the 3100 to 3300 fps range.

    Wildcat bullets offers bullet options that I have yet to find from anywhere else. YOu can get +.800 B.C. numbers but in a bullet built with a heavy tapered jacket to perform like a premium big game bullet.

    Here is my contact informtion for Wildcat Bullets:

    wildcatbullets@hotmail.com

    This is where I shop!!!

    Good shooting,

    Kirby Allen(50)