germany vs america

[soundwaves]

so what do you guys say. the german guns are better(sauer,merkel.blaser,mauser)?or american guns? I say germany wins hands down. . now dont get angry but answer my question properly like a real hunter german guns or US guns? sorry if l made some of you angry l didnt mean any ofense. l just would like to see some elegance in the US guns ln the future. EUROPE agreese with what l say. ohh by the way US makes great sniper rifles.gun)but we are talking about hunting rifles

 

[liltank]

Personally I prefer a Savage over anything. They are easy to work on with out a gun smith. They are extremely accurate out of the box. Mausers (only german type rifle I have ever used) make a great action for building with. I would have to say that Sako and Tikka is an excellent choice when it comes to hunting rifles. Winchester has been an American favorite for years. SOOOOO you can see that I am very diverse in my selection. But Savage will always be at the top. 605yards through the head of a groundhog ain't to shabby for any american rifle without modifications.

Tank

 

[jcoop]

Ok i'll bite. For me elegance has nothing to do with hunting. Accuracy, fit, and function are the things that matter to me. If you hunt in a gentlemens jacket and want to have your ph carry a piece of art for you I can respect that. I just do not see it as a better tool for the job, unless it functions and fits better and is more accurate.

 

[fireroad]

True, the German's make some fine firearms (particularly handguns), but each country has it's own niche. IMHO, the you just can't beat an american rifle or an Italian shotgun That being said, some US custom companies make some of the finest shotguns and pistols available anywhere. Just depends on what you like.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Good thread soundwaves. Being of German descent, I'll throw in I'm with Jcoop on this. Hunting rifles are tools to me.... function is the priority. Give me a SS barreled action set in quality synthetic stock that shoots sub .5 MOA

The rifles you mention are fine rifles but what do they cost? I think if you compare quality German rifles with quality American rifles, you wont find a lot of difference and there are certainly some elegant American rifles to be had. Dakota and Cooper to name a couple.

So both German rifles and American rifles are good when compared on an even playing field.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[J E Custom]

so what do you guys say. the german guns are better(sauer,merkel.blaser,mauser)?or american guns? I say germany wins hands down. . now dont get angry but answer my question properly like a real hunter german guns or US guns? sorry if l made some of you angry l didnt mean any ofense. l just would like to see some elegance in the US guns ln the future. EUROPE agreese with what l say. ohh by the way US makes great sniper rifles.gun)but we are talking about hunting rifles

I'll Say this ;

For the money the US makes the best and most accurate !

All you mentioned except the Mauser are very expensive and it is almost impossible
to make them shoot worth a ****.

The old Mauser's make fine rifles if a quality barrel is screwed on them and the others are just
fancy.

If they were better you can bet that this group of long range hunters would own or build
on them for the accuracy needed.

Cost and fancy engraving has nothing to do with accuracy and that is what it takes for this
sport.

Don't get me wrong I like a beautiful rifle and even own a couple but when I get ready to do
some serious shooting I reach for my American made rifles every time.

Nuff said !!!

J E CUSTOM

 

[jeff 300]

I'll Say this ;

For the money the US makes the best and most accurate !

All you mentioned except the Mauser are very expensive and it is almost impossible
to make them shoot worth a ****.

The old Mauser's make fine rifles if a quality barrel is screwed on them and the others are just
fancy.

If they were better you can bet that this group of long range hunters would own or build
on them for the accuracy needed.

Cost and fancy engraving has nothing to do with accuracy and that is what it takes for this
sport.

Don't get me wrong I like a beautiful rifle and even own a couple but when I get ready to do
some serious shooting I reach for my American made rifles every time.

Nuff said !!!

J E CUSTOM

I agree 100% give me a remington are a savage any day of the week.

 

[soundwaves]

well l have owend american rifles and l like them specialy the rem 700...
but to say the german guns dont shoot straight is just bull ****. l own a heym now and have taken countles İBEX from around 700 to 800 yards with it. and l took my first 1000 plus meter kill with a SAUER 202 with a zeiss 6-24 56 davari on it... l never said american guns were bad l like them too. and l am not a rich hunter who has his guns carried for him l live in the mountains mate. and l own a AK47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[royinidaho]

Hmmmmmm,..............

Elegance is pretty much like a high bc. Neither have received an award on the firing line. In the woods, only bc, of the two, contributes to success. Though elegance does things for ones pride.

One day I'll stuff myself into my tweeds, knickers, sweater vest and double billed cap and take my Drilling (which I don't have) down to the mountains of Nevada and stroll around for a Snow Cock.

I love the beauty and craftsmanship of the European rifles and especially the shot guns.

But when it comes to rifles I'd take my cobbled up Rem 700 ADL in a tupper ware stock any time and any place and not ever feel out classed. It may not be purty but it sure is functional.

 

[RBetts]

German guns are great to look at like a beautiful woman. But like a beautiful woman, much higher maintenance for much less usage in the field. I had a K80 when I shot sporting clays. It was a wonderful gun you could kill targets just as well with a browning citori special sporting the gun it replaced. As wonderful as that K80 was I shot a H&H and a high end SO Berretta once each both were smoother in balance and more elegant in design and function. The beauty of the K80 was the german reliability and very fine tolerance. I could put any K80 barrel set on that frame and it was the same fit and operation.
When you talk production guns they are to a tighter tolerance in most cas4es. When you start putting US gunsmiths up against other countries. One look at the record books in target shooting speaks volumes. Americans currently have the freedoms to evolve to the real or perceived short comings. Look at the Barrel manufacture's. Look at the precision actions. Look at the bullets.
If there is a need it would be brass. It must not be big enough because if it was an American company would see the profit and fill that need here insted of outsourcing it.

 

[joseph]

From what my friends that come from Europe tell me they are not allowed to own guns like we are. The guy from Spain tells me that they can only hunt with shotguns. In Germany + France they can hunt with rifles, but there are restrictions on what kind.

joseph

 

[linksmechanic]

well l have owend american rifles and l like them specialy the rem 700...
but to say the german guns dont shoot straight is just bull ****. l own a heym now and have taken countles İBEX from around 700 to 800 yards with it. and l took my first 1000 plus meter kill with a SAUER 202 with a zeiss 6-24 56 davari on it... l never said american guns were bad l like them too. and l am not a rich hunter who has his guns carried for him l live in the mountains mate. and l own a AK47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh.... You might want to watch the language.

 

[J E Custom]

well l have owend american rifles and l like them specialy the rem 700...
but to say the german guns dont shoot straight is just bull ****. l own a heym now and have taken countles İBEX from around 700 to 800 yards with it. and l took my first 1000 plus meter kill with a SAUER 202 with a zeiss 6-24 56 davari on it... l never said american guns were bad l like them too. and l am not a rich hunter who has his guns carried for him l live in the mountains mate. and l own a AK47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You started this thread and now must live with the comments whether or not you agree
or not.

As I said I have several nice German rifles and a shotgun but if you are talking about a
Hunting rifle then almost any remington or savage will do the trick at normal hunting
distances .

But when I think of accuracy I don't see very many if any on bench rest rifles and at any
long range matches. And I would like to see any records listed that were made using
rifles like the ones you mentioned.

And In fact I have built rifles on some of the German built action and found them no more
true than most American rifles and once the actions were blue printed and a custom barrel
and chamber fitted to them they shot very well. So I am not all that impressed with the
machining accuracy and definitely not with the accuracy for a high priced weapon that
is not at least 3 times better because the price is normally 3 or more times the price of
the American rifles.

Some of the best machined actions I have ever worked on are the Sako's and they are
made in Finland , And the worst quality I have seen came from China and Russia

I am sorry if I offended you but you ask and I gave you my opinion and it is based on
facts not likes and dislikes.

As one of the other posters stated looks don't mean much in this long range game
and if you laid a $15,000 dollar Merkel next to a custom long range rifle, an unknowing
person would pick the Merkel every time because it's fancy but do the same to a
long range shooter and he would probably say ; What caliber is that custom rifle and
who made the barrel.

For a parting note. For half the price of a Merkel or it's equivalent there are gun smiths
on this site that can build a much better shooting rifle with custom engraving,custom
checkering, custom stock,custom action and custom barrel that will out perform "Any"
of the $15'000 to $50,000 dollar rifles.

IF you still don't believe me then post the same question on Snipers hide or 6 BR web
sites and see what they have to say.

J E CUSTOM

 

[joseph]

You started this thread and now must live with the comments whether or not you agree
or not.

As I said I have several nice German rifles and a shotgun but if you are talking about a
Hunting rifle then almost any remington or savage will do the trick at normal hunting
distances .

But when I think of accuracy I don't see very many if any on bench rest rifles and at any
long range matches. And I would like to see any records listed that were made using
rifles like the ones you mentioned.

And In fact I have built rifles on some of the German built action and found them no more
true than most American rifles and once the actions were blue printed and a custom barrel
and chamber fitted to them they shot very well. So I am not all that impressed with the
machining accuracy and definitely not with the accuracy for a high priced weapon that
is not at least 3 times better because the price is normally 3 or more times the price of
the American rifles.

Some of the best machined actions I have ever worked on are the Sako's and they are
made in Finland , And the worst quality I have seen came from China and Russia

I am sorry if I offended you but you ask and I gave you my opinion and it is based on
facts not likes and dislikes.

As one of the other posters stated looks don't mean much in this long range game
and if you laid a $15,000 dollar Merkel next to a custom long range rifle, an unknowing
person would pick the Merkel every time because it's fancy but do the same to a
long range shooter and he would probably say ; What caliber is that custom rifle and
who made the barrel.

For a parting note. For half the price of a Merkel or it's equivalent there are gun smiths
on this site that can build a much better shooting rifle with custom engraving,custom
checkering, custom stock,custom action and custom barrel that will out perform "Any"
of the $15'000 to $50,000 dollar rifles.

IF you still don't believe me then post the same question on Snipers hide or 6 BR web
sites and see what they have to say.

J E CUSTOM

x2.

joseph