Fuzzy Green Onion

[GLTaylor]

For those of you up to some reading, very interesting reading (!), go to the HammerTime forum and read Hammered Downunder. About a year's worth of extensive testing on animals from wild dogs, up through feral donkies, cows and asiatic buffalo in Australia. Hundreds of animals shot, varying angles, calibers, speeds and barrel twist rates. Results are changing how we look at terminal performance and bullet stability in an animal.

 

[wonderman4]

Will someone go out back and just shoot the onion??

 

[judgebill]

Reading the postings here for a couple years now I realize that my personal hunting experience exceeds some, is much less than others. I have hunted with a .300 Wby Mag mostly using 180 gr bullets. Killed everything I shot, (two elk, two caribou, a few deer) all one-shot kills. I have also hunted with a .375 H&H mag using 300 gr handholds. All one-shot kills (about 2 elk, one bison, one kudu, two wildebeest). I do a lot of shooting with my handholds and believe accuracy is the most important factor...and, of course using a bullet at a velocity that is considered (has been demonstrated to be) sufficient for whatever it is I am hunting. So my "formula" is simple, shoot accurately with a good bullet at a reasonable velocity. Fairly simple.

 

[Timnterra]

The best place to find information on terminal ballistics is ballisticstudies.com Nathan Foster has done a ton of real world research on wild animals at ranges from close to well over 1,000yds. There is a wound research section filled with pictures and explanation of actual kill shots on animals. He uses, easily understood, terminology hydrostatic shock, (your onion ball), wide wounding (your fuzzy green part), larger than caliber sized wounding (the non fuzzy green). When I first got started in long range hunting I spent hours pouring over his information and it has heavily impacted my bullet choices ever since.

 

[HRM Johnny]

I feel strongly every kill should have a detailed post mortem to identify and recognize the terminal performance of the bullet under the conditions you shot the animal.

^^^ this ^^^

The best place to find information on terminal ballistics is ballisticstudies.com Nathan Foster has done a ton of real world research on wild animals at ranges from close to well over 1,000yds. There is a wound research section filled with pictures and explanation of actual kill shots on animals. He uses, easily understood, terminology hydrostatic shock, (your onion ball), wide wounding (your fuzzy green part), larger than caliber sized wounding (the non fuzzy green). When I first got started in long range hunting I spent hours pouring over his information and it has heavily impacted my bullet choices ever since.

I believe Nathan Foster is on this site as: kiwinate, Or something like that. I originally came to this site because he mentioned it in one of his books. I would love to see a database of pictures of field autopsies of game that has been shot, and autopsied.

 

[Alberta Wexit]

I would pretty much bet all on this forum would have read Parker Ackley's books. He did extensive terminal ballistics with goats feral donkeys and pigs. some interesting findings.

 

[P7M13]

Green onions are for cooking, and I cannot get my head out of that modality.
The bulb parts are great, lightly seared with mushrooms on a steak.
The green stems are fantastic on salads, potatoes, eggs - you name it - very versatile.
If they're fuzzy, they're not fresh.

The OP reminds me of some of the websites "red pilled" people show me about free energy/free air/perpetual motion, etc. If there was a useful information in the OP, I couldn't stomach converting the analogy into meaningful knowledge.

@GLTaylor & @Timnterra -- thanks for the links!

 

[dougduey]

The best place to find information on terminal ballistics is ballisticstudies.com Nathan Foster has done a ton of real world research on wild animals at ranges from close to well over 1,000yds. There is a wound research section filled with pictures and explanation of actual kill shots on animals. He uses, easily understood, terminology hydrostatic shock, (your onion ball), wide wounding (your fuzzy green part), larger than caliber sized wounding (the non fuzzy green). When I first got started in long range hunting I spent hours pouring over his information and it has heavily impacted my bullet choices ever since.

Totally agree and have learned a ton from Nathan's real world research. If you want to learn more and in more detail, purchase some of his books. His book on long range cartridges goes into very fine detail on each cartridge. From best factory ammo, to best powder for handloads, to best bullets in different weights, to ideal size game, etc. Nothing but great info and a wealth of knowledge.

 

[Julie]

I have had known good bullet designs tumble through game animals but not show the darndest inkling of doing so in my bullet test boxes.
I cannot explain this, I do not know why a bullet that works perfectly passing through damp newspaper, soft cow hide and scapula bone in a bullet test box of 4.5' length stays pointing forward, but can tumble going through a buffalo or a deer.
Have had a 225g Accubond outta 338WM doing 2900fps at the muzzle tumble going lengthwise through said deer and end up pointed in the right direction again. The tumbling was evident in the wound channel, the bullet also hit bone sideways, which was evident on the bullet itself.
Who knows why!
It was ONE incident with ONE bullet out of hundreds shot….

Cheers.

I have never had a bullet tumble that I know of. I have shot several large animals (elk, kudu, gemsbok etc) that I didn't always get an exit from a 180 grain Ballistic Tip. I usually found the bullets just under the skin on the far side of the animal. All those bullets were oriented as they shoule be and showed no sign of tumbling. How do you know your bullets are tumbling in the animal?

 

[LVJ76]

Agree, Nathan Foster's research is extensive and provides tons of knowledge. His books are great as well

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have never had a bullet tumble that I know of. I have shot several large animals (elk, kudu, gemsbok etc) that I didn't always get an exit from a 180 grain Ballistic Tip. I usually found the bullets just under the skin on the far side of the animal. All those bullets were oriented as they shoule be and showed no sign of tumbling. How do you know your bullets are tumbling in the animal?

Two pieces of evidence stand out, the bullets were either oriented backwards or sideways, showed evidence of expansion on one side more so than the other and a wound channel that had a secondary expansion after a large bone was hit. This is evidence of a bullet tumbling. It only happens once the bullet has slowed considerably in my experience culling large critters like water buffalo.
In gel tests, every single FMJ with a boat tail tumbles just after entering the gel and exits backwards. On the high speed, the moment the bullet tumbles, the expansion in the gel is 3 times larger than normal, a conventional bullets expansion as it tumbles is generally double normal expansion. FMJ hunting bullets with wide meplats, like those made by Woodleigh, do not tumble and are pretty good at staying straight, but we have seen those deviate at ridiculous angles too, the worst culprits in that aspect are RN FMJ's.
I wouldn't expect for you to see many Ballistic Tips tumble, unless a large bone is hit at 3/4 of it's penetration, although this doesn't guarantee such an occurrence.

Cheers.

 

[droptine]

Can someone give me the short version.

 

[LouisianaHunter]

Bullet choice over cartridge choice is fairly revolutionary for many, so many thanks for the comment.

I'm new to this forum . I've learned a lot from reading post to this forum .
I killed my first deer 55 years ago with a 20 gauge and no3 buckshot.
Since then I've killed a lot of deer starting with 150 grn powerpoints to now shooting 165 sst . Most with at 308.
I love reading the discussion of which bullet and which caliber works best.
Not to mention the reloading discussions over getting max accuracy.
Put a good bullet in a good spot . That will do it !
Thanks for the education guys and girls .