Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot

I finally was able to get goggle earth to cooperate and spit out my range image. Here is a goggle view of the site from behind the firing point looking roughly due NORTH, with the target points shown as pins at 1,500, 1,800, 2,200, and 2,500 yards.

MoapaRange_Page_1.jpg


Note the hill to the left of direct line of sight to the 1,500 and 1,800 yard target points. We would have a spotter stationed on the backside of that hill, in complete defelade and safety to spot bullet impacts for us. The intermediate spotter point is roughly 1,000 yards closer to the far points than the firing point and provides a MUCH better opportunity to give feedback for adjustment calls. Before you ask, yes we already have2-way radios for use on this site that function properly from the spotter's vantage point.

Also notice the gravel road(s) that goes over to and then parallels the target route and the washout areas or dry streams that as of today are running freely with water from last nights rain.
 
LOL..ok

How about hidden behind the rocks and cannot be shot very easily, unless its a magic bullet that goes out 1,000 yards then drops straight down 12-14 feet to hit someone.

JeffVN
 
I thought it might be appropriate to start talking a bit more about what the testing will look like and what we are trying to do. We will be shooting, or hope to shoot, 4 calibers of bullets. 30 cal, 338, 375, 50 cal. With each caliber projectile, we are hoping to have someone shoot a Standard Bearer projectile (Well-known brand with significant following); for example, on the 30 Cal, we would hope to have someone shoot a Berger 210 or 208 Hornady Amax. That will give us a known standard to compare everthing else that flies during the 30 cal tests.

WIth that in mind I wanted to list what we have commitments for and will be shooting so far in our tests (Assuming that teh shooters get adequately accurate loads and decide to bring them for testing) (I make this assumption because if i were one of our shooters I would NOT bring a projectile to the test if I could not get it to group decently at my own range). For everyone's information if my 338 LM Improved is completed in time I WILL be one of the shooters and I will have someone else run the testing, and the various firing lines as range safety officer. If not, then i will run the lines and the event.

The bullet lines that we hope to test are: Preditor, Lehigh, ZA, HAT, GC Custom, Hooker, and Wildcat. I know there are more, but my brain has shut down temproarily. In that same vein, I'm not positive that all of these manufacturers have bullets in all these claibers, so this list is VERY PRELIMINARY and WILL be edited as information becomes known.

30 Cal: - standard bearer 210 grain Berger VLD
ZA weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
HAT weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Preditor weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)

338 -standard bearer 300 grain Sierra or Lapua
ZA 7 caliber weight undertermined
HAT weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Preditor weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
GS Custom 295gr & 232 grain
Hooker weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)

375-standard bearer 350 grain Sierra
ZA weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
HAT weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Preditor weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
GS Custom weights undetermined
Hooker weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)

50 Cal - standard bearrer...Lapua N or Hornady AMAX
ZA weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
HAT weights undertermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Preditor weights undertermined

Notwithstanding the bullets that we have and that are being tested, the testing will be structures like this. We will shoot by caliber, so that like bullets are flying in like conditions to the extent that we can make it happen. So all the 30 cals will be shot at the sequentially until they are finished getting zeros, then move to teh 900 yard line and shoot groups and drops.

Then we go with the 338s, and then the 375 (remember that my range will not permit a 50 cal to be fired there);

AT this point I would like to know how many bullets would be firing (as in types, not the number of rounds), so that we can accomodate them on our list. For example, we do not need 3 people shooting a standard bearer for 338....we only need one. There may be more than one person volunteering to shoot an indivudal bullets, but we need to see how many bullets we are going to have before we can definitievely say that will or will not happen. Anyone interested in shooting something for testing in the tests, please let me know by sending me a message or simply posting your interest here, as well as the bullet(s) that you intend to test. I will update and edit list as we receive input.

Dave Viers has volunteered to shoot 30 Cal and 375 cal. In 375, he is planning to shoot a 375 ZA, and a standard bearer sierra. I don't recall the 30 cal so I will let him supplement with a post and clarify what he is doing.

If my 338 L.M. Improved is finished in time, I will be shooting a 338 standard bearer 300 grain sierra or lapua, as well as the GC Custom 295, CS Custom 232, and a ZA 7 caliber.

We have approximately 5 or 7 I do not recall of Lutz Moeller's banded solid bullets and they will be loaded to his published specifications and shot during our initial 100 yard testing.

As my information increases, I will update and edit the lists.
 
Jeff,

Thanks for the update and information. Maybe I am inattentive, but is there a date certian yet?

I plan on shooting a 338AM with the 265gr HATS. Would you be interested in testing the rocky mountain bullets from a 375 cheytac?

What chamberings are you wanting to shoot the standardized rounds from. I am just trying to figure out what else I can bring to shoot. Most all of my .30 caliber rifles are .308 Win. I could probably get some 208s running through one if it would be of any help.

No 7mm testing? My safe is loaded heavy in 7mms.
 
30 Cal: - standard bearer 210 grain Berger VLD
ZA 175 or 240 grain
HAT weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Predator weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)

338 -standard bearer 300 grain Sierra or Lapua
ZA 5.8 caliber - 300 grain (6.5 or 7.0 caliber weight undetermined )
HAT - 265 grain
Predator weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
GS Custom 295gr & 232 grain
Hooker weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Lehigh weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)

375 - standard bearer 350 grain Sierra
ZA weights undetermined (6.0 or 6.5 caliber in length)
HAT weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Predator weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
GS Custom weights undetermined
Hooker weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Rocky Mountain weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)
Lehigh weights undetermined (hopefully medium and heavy)


50 Cal - standard bearer...Lapua N or Hornady AMAX
ZA weights undetermined (5.5 and 6.0 calibers - 931 grains)
Predator weight undetermined


SHOOTERS
Dave Viers has volunteered to shoot 30 Cal standard bearer and 375 cal. In 375, he is planning to shoot a 375 ZA 6.0 or 6.5 caliber length, and a standard bearer 350 grain sierra.

Steve Damron is going to shoot 30 cal predator bullets (weight unknown); 338 Predator (weight unknown), and 375 Predator (weight unknown)

If my 338 L.M. Improved is finished in time, I will be shooting a 338 standard bearer 300 grain sierra or Lapua (if Cory cannot), as well as the GS Custom 295 grain, GS Custom 232 grain, and a ZA 6.5 and potentially 7 caliber in length.

Eddybo has volunteered to shoot 338 HAT 265 grains

Cory Trapp has potentially committed to shoot 338 standard bearer, as well as the ZA 5.8 caliber (approximately 300 grains), possibly GS Custom 338.

Ryan McMillan has potentially committed to shoot ZA 50 cal and possibly Predator 50 cal.



Will we have any Berger 338, 300 grain...I have no idea.


We have NO DATE YET. I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN WE DO. One of our team is STILL OUT OF THE COUNTRY. Until he returns, we will NOT have a date.


Cartridges for firing standard bearer bullets. We are not compelling anyone to shoot anything, including standard bearer bullets. We do not need them for our testing, so if no one is planning on shooting them they will not be included in the tests.

We are not compelling anyone to shot any specific cartridges for the bullets that they test. If you shoot, like Eddybo, a big magnum, then you better be ready to shoot out a long way, and bring lots of ammo to get there. My current round count for each bullet is right at 65 rounds, but that may varry and is still a VERY ROUGH NUMBER.

Round count and distances shot. We are going to try, if possible, to take all of the bullets to subsonic velocities and see how they react to the transition from sonic to subsonic as far as accuracy. If they shoot beyond the distance of our range, then we can't do that portion of the test. For example, if your 338AM is potentailly capable of shooting 3,000 yards+ then we are not going to start you at 1,500 yards for testing. You may start at 1,800 or posssibly even at 2,200 yards. With the number of bullets that we are testing, and the number that will be shot at each distance (5), this is going to be a LONG DAY, followed very likely by ANOTHER LONG DAY in the desert for testing.

But then again its still evolving, and will continue to do so as the numbers and type of bullets that will be tested changes. So give me your feedback and we'll see what we can do to accomodate your wants and desires into our testing protocols.

Jeff
 
Wow, Jeff. Thanks for all your work here. I'd love to be able just to watch that and meet all you guys, but comittments otherwise won't allow it at this juncture. It will be very interesting to see the result of all this labor.
 
Jeff,

Here is what i am planning on bringing and shooting.

30 BTAC Long Range Pistol 8 twist barrel 20"
210 gn HAT bullets


375 Snipetac rifle Gain twist barrel 16" start, 7.75" ending 31"bbl
350 Sierra Match Kings
350 Predator solids
370 Montana jacketed alum tipped
ZA bullets
I can test other types if needed, but loading these big cases is spendy, so if
there are any other bullets they need to be sent to me for range tests and load work.


Dave
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Steve from Dynamic Research (predator bullets) will be using the following:

300 win mag
176 Predator solids

338 Lapua mag
235 Predator solids

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I will be bringing an ATV (700 polaris) to shuttle peeps and or gear up the hill.

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Jeff, I'm sorry if I missed it (this thread is getting long), but what sort of equipment was going to be used to measure BC's?
 
That looks like a great line up. Would be really cool to get some 30 cal GS HV 177's in there.

I wonder if the 338 Bergers will be ready...

Dont forget to take pics of the bullets side by side :)


Berger 300's........................

I just read a post on 24hrcampfire.com, where one of the Berger "Ballisticians" told the forum guys that he expects the Berger 300 to be ready in March or April. Not sure if we can bank on that, but let's hope!!!!

Kelly
 
Jon.

I will let the SAAB represenative answer details on the design, and function, of their LOMAH (Location Of Miss And Hit) system. He should be available at the end of this month.

I can tell you this much; it senses velocity, and x-y coordinates, of any supersonic object which passes through a dual plane, twelve foot diameter, acoustic lobe. We will be setting the equipment up at the target points once we have calibrated it with a secondary chronometer located at the firing point.

It will tell us definitively, not only ballistic coefficients, but where projectiles go subsonic. The dispersion on the physical target, beyond the supersonic range, will yield an excellent data set on the transsonic capabilities of all of the test entrys.

Best,
Noel
 
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