full length re-sizing verses neck sizing

[hunter30]

what are some of the pros and cons of full length re-sizing and neck re-sizing?if i switch to neck re-sizing will new brass preform differently because it is full length re-sized and not " fire formed". my goal is to make ammo that i can shoot out to 1000 yds. can this be done with full length re-sizing?

 

[el matador]

You will find a lot of info on this topic by using the Search function. Everyone has an opinion on which one is better or more accurate but they are both good options if done correctly. The main thing you want is for your resized case to still fit the chamber closely, especially in the shoulder area. When FL sizing you need to adjust the die to "bump" the shoulder back only .001-.003". Setting the die to cam over will often give you .010" or more of shoulder bump which is way too much.

 

[Mikecr]

Your cartridge, chamber clearances, and load will lead to your sizing requirements.
Most shoot well with FL sized brass, provided they can make it last. But it can takes a bit more than a pile of abstracts to get there(a plan). Same with neck sizing/bump only.

 

[Greyfox]

I agree with mikecr. I have found that there is no rule for how a particular rifle shoots best in this respect. I have a Cooper in 6.5-284 that will shoot the same velocity, ES, and accuracy(<.5 MOA) out to 1000 yards using Lapua new, neck, or FL sized brass. Can't say that for all my rifles. For hunting purposes I prefer FL if it delivers the performance. I wouldn't want a tight cartridge on a shot at game. Neck sized rounds will eventually require body sizing with repeated firings in order to get smooth chambering.

 

[hunter30]

thanks to all for the advice. ill try bump sizing before i go buy new neck sizing dies

 

[Trickymissfit]

rule of the thumb is that when your using a factory chamber, it's pretty much a waste of time to neck size. Yet we all do it from time to time, and make it work. Some chambers will never gain from neck sizing and others will.

I rarely neck size for anything larger than a 6mm, but that's just me. I always shave necks that I plan on neck sizing. Use nothing but inline dies like Wilson.
gary

 

[7magcreedmoor]

I use Redding Competition shellholders to resize. These come in sets of 5 and are machined in +.002" increments longer than standard. After shooting virgin cases in my rifle, I measure headspace (using the shoulder angle bump gauge inserts for my comparator and caliper) and use whichever shellholder size gives me .002" or less bump back. While many simply back the die up in the press to partial resize, that method can result in inconsistencies we don't want. Using the shellholders lets you get the headspace you need and still set up the die tight (slight cam-over) in the press so it is consistent. The shellholder set is cheaper than neck-sizing dies made for the purpose.

 

[LaHunter]

I also use the Redding Comp shell holders for my 7mm rem mag. I would recommend these for sure.

 

[hunter30]

i may try some of those shellholders. thanks

 

[stevesmith]

You will find a lot of info on this topic by using the Search function. Everyone has an opinion on which one is better or more accurate but they are both good options if done correctly. The main thing you want is for your resized case to still fit the chamber closely, especially in the shoulder area. When FL sizing you need to adjust the die to "bump" the shoulder back only .001-.003". Setting the die to cam over will often give you .010" or more of shoulder bump which is way too much.

im new to loading so im gonna ask how do you set your dies to make sure your getting the .001-.003 bump..my die set came with the setup sheet..seems as if i set it and when i pull the handle if the die comes down and touches the holder that is all it can do. seems if you lower the setting it will just crush the case..im sure theres something here i simply dont know..any help here would be appreciated.

 

[7magcreedmoor]

im new to loading so im gonna ask how do you set your dies to make sure your getting the .001-.003 bump..my die set came with the setup sheet..seems as if i set it and when i pull the handle if the die comes down and touches the holder that is all it can do. seems if you lower the setting it will just crush the case..im sure theres something here i simply dont know..any help here would be appreciated.

Newbies are always welcome here. Your die set instructions probably say something along these lines: insert the proper shellholder in the ram, run it all the way up, screw the die into the press until it contacts the shellholder, lower the ram and turn die approx. 1/8 to 1/4 turn further, install lock ring. This is the "standard setting" for RCBS, Redding, etc standard full-length sizing dies. Setting up this way results in feeling a slight "springing" of the handle when you bottom out the lever of your press and means that your die and shellholder are tightly pressed together and the whole assembly is under tension. The dimensions of your re-sized case are determined by the internal dimensions of the shellholder/die combination. These pieces are machined based upon the SAAMI standards for the caliber in question. Slight variations do occur, as can happen in any manufacturing process, which is how two identical rifles can have a slightly different headspace, even though they were both made by the same assembly line, or the same custom smith. This can also happen (not as common as you might think) if you mix brands of equipment (one company's die with another's shellholder) even though the SAAMI info was used by both companies. To partially re-size your cases, first you need measuring tools (bump gauge and comparator) to determine how much. Some people are content to simply unscrew the die a little bit at a time from the press to achieve the appropriate spacing, and get along fine doing that, but I prefer to use "competition" shellholders, which come in sets and are machined to create an additional length from case head to shoulder without losing the tension of the press, for consistency. Comp shellholders offer +0.002", +0.004" etc all the way up to +0.010". After measuring your headspace, select the shellholder that gives the closest match to your fired brass. To clarify a bit from your question about "crushing" the case, you can only make headspace longer by adjusting your dies or using comp shellholders. To make it shorter would require grinding off a little from the bottom of your die, or the top surface of your shellholder, but if you cannot obtain an acceptable fit for your rifle using standard parts, you should really have the rifle's headspace checked for proper specs.

 

[stevesmith]

Newbies are always welcome here. Your die set instructions probably say something along these lines: insert the proper shellholder in the ram, run it all the way up, screw the die into the press until it contacts the shellholder, lower the ram and turn die approx. 1/8 to 1/4 turn further, install lock ring. This is the "standard setting" for RCBS, Redding, etc standard full-length sizing dies. Setting up this way results in feeling a slight "springing" of the handle when you bottom out the lever of your press and means that your die and shellholder are tightly pressed together and the whole assembly is under tension. The dimensions of your re-sized case are determined by the internal dimensions of the shellholder/die combination. These pieces are machined based upon the SAAMI standards for the caliber in question. Slight variations do occur, as can happen in any manufacturing process, which is how two identical rifles can have a slightly different headspace, even though they were both made by the same assembly line, or the same custom smith. This can also happen (not as common as you might think) if you mix brands of equipment (one company's die with another's shellholder) even though the SAAMI info was used by both companies. To partially re-size your cases, first you need measuring tools (bump gauge and comparator) to determine how much. Some people are content to simply unscrew the die a little bit at a time from the press to achieve the appropriate spacing, and get along fine doing that, but I prefer to use "competition" shellholders, which come in sets and are machined to create an additional length from case head to shoulder without losing the tension of the press, for consistency. Comp shellholders offer +0.002", +0.004" etc all the way up to +0.010". After measuring your headspace, select the shellholder that gives the closest match to your fired brass. To clarify a bit from your question about "crushing" the case, you can only make headspace longer by adjusting your dies or using comp shellholders. To make it shorter would require grinding off a little from the bottom of your die, or the top surface of your shellholder, but if you cannot obtain an acceptable fit for your rifle using standard parts, you should really have the rifle's headspace checked for proper specs.

its a new 110ba 338 lapua ive shot it about 200 rounds with factory ammo. im sure you know its about $7.00 average each trigger pull..so i decided to load my own. i bought the lee single stage kit. it has the fl die to resize and deprime and the seater die..basically the way you said the instructions equal the same anyway.. but when you pull the handle you can feel it resize and not springy at all. all ive done so far is to put a resized brass in my gun chamber and chamber it for feel after ive resized it..it feels real good light and smooth..well ive got about 65 loaded so far anf they feel nice n smooth when chambering..i havent shot one yet. i will tomorrow. but ive heard a lot of people talk about pushing the shoulder back .001 or .002 and have thought how do you do that..well i cant with mine..if mine is setup right when i put a case in it and pull the lever i see the die touch the shell holder and the spent primer pop out that wy i know it was full sized..other than that i havent a clue about it.. i have a hornady oal guage that i found the length to the lands with the ogive so i set it as long as i could to still fit the magazine..after i get good accuracy ill start moving to the lands if needed..im a member of loaddata.com and ive got 7 other books about loading the 338 lapua. with all that ive made it happen but just didnt understand how to move the shoulder. i was told that this full sizer would take care of it for me..so i will see..
thanks for your time and effort in trying to explain to me..
have a blessed day..

 

[7magcreedmoor]

You need the headspace (bump) gauge and comparator to measure your fired cases in order to know what actual dimension you want to push the shoulder back .001" or .002" FROM. Look up "headspace gauges" on a site like Sinclair International or some similar shooter's supply outfit. You will need the insert which matches the shoulder angle for your caliber (in your reloading data manuals the case dimensions should be given) and install the comparator with insert on one blade of your caliper. Measure about 10 fired cases (after a thorough cleaning) and use the average. Run these cases through your resizing die set up to factory specs (per the manual or my description above) and measure them again. Compare the two average headspace measurements. If the fired cases are (I am making up numbers, I don't have data for 338LM anyone out there who does please throw some real numbers our way) 3.555" and the resized cases are 3.553", then you are in good shape. If the resized cases are shorter than 3.553", then you might benefit from adjusting the dies/or using comp shellholders as previously described.

 

[Bill Johnson]

i may try some of those shellholders. thanks

I found this to be an elegant solution and useable on any standard die set with any cartridge:

Headspace Control Shims (TM) the EXACT Headspace Sizing Solution!

Sinclair has this set also:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...es/skip-s-die-shim-kit-7-8-14--prod33197.aspx