Full Length or Neck Only; What's Best Resizing for Accuracy?

[INTJ1]

There are a few LR BR folks with bad attitudes.

They don't like my definition of accuracy being the largest groups fired which happens when all the variables add up at their extremes. 20% or more bigger than aggregate average is common.

Not among the groups I have competed against. Competitors quickly become friends and you find you are as happy when one of your friends does well as when you do well yourself. That said, I shoot out West and I don't know as much about the shooters back East, though the ones I have come across are good people as well.

Maybe it's just we think it's funny when people neck-only size......

Now I have run across a few Highpower shooters with attitudes, but I expect that is the minority.

 

[Rich Coyle]

There are a few LR BR folks with bad attitudes.

They don't like my definition of accuracy being the largest groups fired which happens when all the variables add up at their extremes. 20% or more bigger than aggregate average is common.

I like it.

 

[Bart B]

The highpower disciplines may well have the most with bad attitudes. As one national highpower champion said, "It's fun proving them wrong."

 

[Rich Coyle]

Bart B,

I have fired many 1/2" to 3/4" five shot groups with my hunting rifles. Occasionally I get one about 1 1/2". Therefore I claim I have a minute and a half rifle. That's just the way I look at this.

 

[INTJ1]

The highpower disciplines may well have the most with bad attitudes. As one national highpower champion said, "It's fun proving them wrong."

That could be because they are a very large discipline. As opposed to LR BR which is very small, at least NBRSA LR BR is small.

The attitudes are silly. Life is too short for artificial drama.....

 

[J E Custom]

Yeah I did take a long time to say the hunting and target shooting competitions are different. It's different among the various types of competitions as well. One thing I like a lot about LR BR is that there is no "attitude" among the shooters like I have seen in other types of shooting competitions. Everyone is helpful and friendly.

I have friends that compete and are great guys. I have found very few competitors with Bad attitudes In all the different competitions I have been involved In from archery, shotguns, pistols, rifles, fishing tournaments, and things like golf."BUT" they all have their little secrets that they will not share with anyone. Some will throw out tidbits of misinformation just having fun, and if you believe it, it's your problem, But that doesn't make them bad or have a bad attitude It just makes them competitive.

Most members are very open on this web site and will share there ideas and opinions with nothing to gain but the chance of helping someone else. Sometimes we also receive a large dose of venom for having an opinion or some experience with the subject from some, but for the most part we are very lucky to have such a diverse group. Some web sites are so venomous and adversarial that in addition to the fact that they are not interesting to most, they don't offer and constructive information, just criticism.

So not all shooters/competitors are bad, they just don't share information like we do.

J E CUSTOM

 

[INTJ1]

I have friends that compete and are great guys. I have found very few competitors with Bad attitudes In all the different competitions I have been involved In from archery, shotguns, pistols, rifles, fishing tournaments, and things like golf."BUT" they all have their little secrets that they will not share with anyone. Some will throw out tidbits of misinformation just having fun, and if you believe it, it's your problem, But that doesn't make them bad or have a bad attitude It just makes them competitive.

Most members are very open on this web site and will share there ideas and opinions with nothing to gain but the chance of helping someone else. Sometimes we also receive a large dose of venom for having an opinion or some experience with the subject from some, but for the most part we are very lucky to have such a diverse group. Some web sites are so venomous and adversarial that in addition to the fact that they are not interesting to most, they don't offer and constructive information, just criticism.

So not all shooters/competitors are bad, they just don't share information like we do.

J E CUSTOM

That has not been my experience with NBRSA LR BR. People usually share all they know. While we are always trying new stuff and may not share what we are trying until we see that it works, no one has ever given me wrong info.

In fact, almost any of the 12-16 shooters we get for a routine match can win, and our results are mixed enough that no one really dominates everything. Then again, we compete for group agg, score agg, small single group, small single score; for both Light Gun and Heavy Gun classes. There is an overall match winner but I think most of us care more about group agg.

One of the guys I shoot with all the time is something like an 18 time NBRSA Long Range Hall of Fame shooter. The winningest one of us all. On matches in White City I get to tune at distance the day prior and he is usually there as well. After I shoot my test targets I'll take them to him for his opinion. Almost without question he tells me to test again. And yes, I have placed above him several times. He's also handed me my hind end quite a bit as well.

I think the reason is we need more people to shoot with us and they way we get more people to shoot is by helping them be successful. Also, if I tell my friend about a new thing I found that works, and he uses it and does well, I am happy for him.

Also, LR BR is slave to the conditions. It's only in those rare good conditions that the excessive stuff we do matters. On an average day, average loading skills coupled with picking and shooting in a good micro condition will win the day.

Accurate Shooter is where most of the BR types hang out and it too is a great site.

Sorry to be an LR BR advertisement, but it is a great shooting sport! Also, we don't have to lay on our bellies when we shoot.......

 

[Bart B]

When Sierra Bullets was having quality control problems in the 1980's, it was highpower shooters that showed them what to fix.

 

[Bart B]

J E Custom mentioned some competitive shooters won't reveal their secrets. I've never known a top ranked highpower one that would not share them. Their reasoning is based on their desire to compete against themselves with others having the same attitude.

 

[25WSM]

Well I can tell you that 1000yd BR on the east coast is very friendly too. We typically have 70 plus shooters in light gun and a few less for heavy gun. I doubt there are 5 guys who won't tell you anything. Even the world record holders are always sharing. The one current world record holder has said cases need to fit like a turd in a violin case more than once. He has special dies made that size more than small base dies. He also uses more setback than anybody I've ever seen. He is probably the winningest shooter at our club. He also shoots deer well past 1000 yards. The only shooting compatitions where guys are kind of jerky is the local groundhog matches. There is no way they are going to help someone win that 15 bucks and a sticker. The 1 and 200 yard guys are very nice guys too.
I personally don't believe that some guns shoot better neck sized or full length sized. If it shoots great neck sized it is a rifle capable of accuacy and will shoot just as good full length sized. You can't test this by using the exact same load. Your full length sized brass will be slightly different than your neck sized brass load. I don't own any neck sizing dies anymore. After learning how to setback brass all my rifles shot better full length so I never went back. So after shooting 1 and 200 yard BR and 1000 yard BR with some of the best shooters in the world you learn a ton about accuracy. I don't load any different for my hunting ammo except that I won't put bullets into the lands on hunting ammo. I build every hunting rifle like it's a BR rifle and load for them like they are a BR rifle and they are very accurate done this way. If what you do now is producing the accuracy you require or strive for then keep doing it because it's working. But if accuacy is your quest learn from the people that are the most accurate shooters in the world. I did and am very grateful to all the great shooters who helped me along the way. Of everything I've completed in the shooting sports have been the nicest people of all. You get that same niceness from people on this site.
Shep

 

[Bart B]

25WSM says your full length sized brass (load) will be slightly different than your neck sized brass load.

This inquiring mind wants to know why.

What's the difference if bullet pull force is the same for both?

 

[INTJ1]

25WSM says your full length sized brass (load) will be slightly different than your neck sized brass load.

This inquiring mind wants to know why. What's the difference?

The FL sized brass cartridges will expend a little more energy in pushing the case to the walls of the chamber than the neck-only sized case. That can sometimes change the tune a little.

Some think that the brass expansion of an FL sized case with the shoulder bumped around .003" can actual mitigate pressure fluctuations a bit and provide more consistency. I have not personally tested that, but the guy who told me that always places near the top.

 

[Bart B]

I think the smaller diameter full length sized case bodies have would increase the start up pressures of a given load and a .001" shoulder setback would do well.

 

[INTJ1]

I think the smaller diameter full length sized case bodies have would increase the start up pressures of a given load and a .001" shoulder setback would do well.

The neck will still release the bullet when that pressure is reached, so I would speculate that startup pressure wouldn't change. It would be cool to test all this in a lab and see for sure....